Forgotten Kingdoms Forums

So, I've been thinking about my low level, unguilded wizard and a lot of the leveling difficulties I've been having with him. A large part of that, I felt was his downtime as a caster. The other, perhaps even larger portion, is that he only has access to level 0 and level 1 spells.

Thanks to Marty's code change, I was thinking it might be a good time to suggest that unguilded wizards get access to up to level 4 spells. This would give them the basics they need to succeed until they've finally decided what guild to get into or are finally capable of reaching said guild.

I don't feel they should have access to anything above level 4 as the cost of training is generally pretty high and, otherwise, they are basically considered in the Mage's guild without paying the entrance fee.

Any thoughts?

I agree with that at 150%

As long as we makes sure that any previously learn spell from prohibited scholl becomes impossible to use once you choose your school.

Level 4 spells are Character level 16 in FK, which is not really very high.

Brar

I agree, wizards should have to decide by then what guild they want or can join. Level 4 spells are still valuable and can aid a wizard. I support

I believe, though, that the reason a wizard is not getting spells passed level 1 is to ensure that the player cannot raise their spells above their allowed rank before they choose their specialty.

Mages and specialist wizards all have different max skill level caps for spells starting at level 1 spells, and of course there are forbidden spells to consider. An unguilded wizard being able to learn up to level 4 spells would give them spells they shouldn't be allowed to have because they never choose their specialty guild, and hence never received a forbidden school. It also might allow them to raise their spells higher than they should be able to since specialty wizards have a lower cap for spells than general mages do. Unguilded wizards might easily be able to use strong level 4 spells to a skill level higher then they should be allowed to. In fact, even all the level 1 spells are all available to them in the current state of the game, which shouldn't be the case unless they are a mage.

Zorinar wrote: An unguilded wizard being able to learn up to level 4 spells would give them spells they shouldn't be allowed to have because they never choose their specialty guild, and hence never received a forbidden school.

Well, when the memorization system came in place, they reduced the skilllevel of all the existing wizards so I guess it won't be a problem to do that upon joining a guild(school).
Same for the forbidden spell, I'm pretty sure there is something codewise that forbids you to cast spells from opposite schools, so again once you join a school everything comes back to place.

Maybe we can add a limit of apprentice or journeyman to the skilllevel for non guilded wizard.

Brar

Can confirm that code is now in place that will remove access to none guild spells once you join a guild, as this has happened to one of my rather older characters who had some out guild spells for various reasons.

Duranamir

How will the skill level restrictions work then?
GM all possible spells until you join a guild? In other words, better than every wizard in the game until you finally decide to guild up? Sounds like a sweet deal to me.. lots of nice spells at level 3 and four.


Edit:
Ah didnt see your post until after Brar, but all the same, even limiting the skill levels gives unfair advantages to the unguilded wizard as they get all spells available to them. It kind of doesn't make sense to me that a wizard can learn spells then suddenly forget how to cast them later in life.

But that already happens. In fact, your wizard might be forced to learn a spell such as magic missile just to graduate from the school, only to later become an enchanter and forget it entirely. One can only assume that this is a result of the wizard choosing to specialize in spells that oppose the ones he learned before, so he is forced to forget or avow from using them.

My only qualm is that you can do a looooot with just lvl 1-4 spells, I'm talking train to level 50 and not really suffer any major disadvantages compared to other wizards. I don't know if anyone else feels this is out of place for unguilded wizards. If so I think capping it to lvl 3 is a better choice.

Re: Aryvael:
Even if someone decided to stay unguilded for life, they're still at a significant disadvantage in the end. Metamagic'd fireballs are still not as powerful as, say, Polar Ray that Zorinar's come to love so much. Try it out.

Giving them the ability to level is no long-term advantage over guilded wizards. Guilded wizards would have access to level 5+ spells; all of which are higher level spells for a reason. After they're guilded, they'll still be unable to cast spells forbidden to their schools (unless they go mage, who have access to all spells).

I don't think that being "unguilded" should restrict the spells that you can use, but rather the spells you have access to. I've always disliked the "guilding" in FK. A better fix would be to upgrade the character generation to allow you to specialize at creation, upgrade the teachers in the various guilds to teach more spells, and make non-guild NPCs that teach spells fewer and farther between.

So, instead of the guilds being something that you absolutely HAVE to be a part of, it would be a choice. Instead of a wizard HAVING to have a certain number in a specific statistic to even specialize at all, it'd become a choice as well. Instead of guilds being a means to remove a coded spell limit, they would become a means to gain more knowledge. Cannon-wise, guilds are exclusive groups of a sort that pride themselves on being exceptional, they do not generally take every run-of-the-mill caster that stumbles by and throw them a membership. If you fail the quest to join, you don't get a second quest to make up for it. You'll just have to make do without them.

This would put more emphasis on the teaching feats. With most upper-tier spells and secrets being closely guarded by various factions and guilds, wizards that fail to gain membership/decide to take another path could learn from other players instead. Established wizards that can teach could form their own circles and covenants. An established/accomplished wizard with the funds to acquire a dwelling or who have a dwelling could use them as schools/guilds.

This would also fix the problem with non-humanoid wizards not being able to specialize. Yes, it would make wizards really difficult to play, but they're supposed to be difficult.

Greetings,
Started a wizard not to long ago. during the setup I was under the impression.
that I had already chosen a field or school. I am really not in a rush since I am Elf. I have a fairly
long life span. see we basically starting at lvl 0 and so have to look at it as character building. till
about level 5. I am not really up to date on the new rules and stuff. FK level 16 equates to lvl 6 or 7
at 5th level where you start to get the spells that start packing a punch. it is usually the level where
people start considering split classing. [a question I have is religious in nature dose FK use the specialty
priest. ] since I am about to progress to 10th level It is really time to consider a Deity. and worry about
specialize schooling after my piety quest. to get back to the main topic. perhaps a setup package can be used to
help limit spells. in other words start specialized and make your finale choice by lvl 20. I am not familiar with the codding how dynamic it is in nature. most people play this usually have an idea about DnD all ready.

Hi Shalamar - You can not multi-class in FK, just one class (at least at a time). You can join a wizard school at any point, but you have to find (and be able to survive) the training school, an in-game area.

We do have priests as a class, and they almost always specialize as Clerics, devoting themselves to a specific deity. But you have to start them out as a priest, not a wizard.

If that leaves any questions outstanding, please just say so and we'll keep trying to answer them all!