Forgotten Kingdoms Forums

Just some suggestions regarding learned languages and innate languages.

- Languages that fall under "other languages known" should not count towards the language capacity. There are only a few races that get them (less than there should be) and they are more innately known than learned. For example, a gnomes ability to speak to animals is due more to an innate empathy with animals than a learned language.

- Planetouched should get the following for "other languages known" based on the element of the plane they are infused with:

Air Genasi - Auran
Earth Genasi - Terran
Water Genasi - Aquan
Fire Genasi - Ignan
Aasimar - Celestial
Tiefling - Abyssal (If ethos is Chaotic) - Infernal (If ethos is Lawful) - None or maybe just a random roll for either Abyssal or Infernal (If ethos is Neutral).

- Rename Darkspeak to Undercommon and give Drow both "Drow" and "Drows' Cant".

- The "Dark Races" (Drow, Svirfneblin, and Duergar) should all have their own languages and *maybe* know their counterparts' language in "other languages known" seeing as how each were once all the same at one time. This would not be the same for the "Light Races" (Elves, Gnomes, and Dwarves), because they would not have any knowledge passed down to them about the "new" language.

- Elves should *maybe* get ancient in "other languages known" seeing as how they're pretty much ancients themselves.

- Wizards should get the magical language in "other languages known" since they are gifted/attuned to the weave and would possibly be able to discern some things by instinct alone.

- Innately known languages should start out at apprentice level rather than grandmaster level.

That's all the thoughts I have on it for now. I'm sure I missed/overlooked some connections with some of the races, so feel free to post anything I might have missed.

I'm not sure I follow, why should any distantly plane-touched innately know the language of its origin? What are dark and light races and how were they "once the same"? How are elves considered ancients?

Planetouched, seeing how they are quasi-elemental or sometimes half-elemental, would innately be able to understand creatures of the same origin by empathy alone. Just like they can sense each other when they are near another of their kind.

Ancient is pre-common and true elves are probably the oldest living race next to dragons. Most elves, even younger elves, would most likely have knowledge about the language, because most of their texts - if not written in elvish - would be written in a pre-common dialect. It would be limited to surface elves though and non-aquatic/wild as well. The Dark Elves left most of their written knowledge when they fled, aquatic elves have "song-books" instead of written works and wild elves don't keep any kind of written knowledge as far as I know.

The Dark Races are the subraces that dwell in the Underdark. Most are generally the evil counterparts of the more goodly race that live on the surface, with the exception of Svirfneblin, but even they are more evil-like and "serious" than surface gnomes.

Deep Imaskari - Deep Humans. War Wizards that once controlled Imaskar, but were driven Underground when the phaerimm (a monster they created) turned against them. These are the only "Underdark Humans" that I know about, but there may be more.

Drow - Dark Elves. They used to be surface elves but were driven underground due to Lloth's betrayal of Corellon.

Duergar - Gray Dwarves. They're pretty much just the dwarven version of a tiefling. There's probably some kind of story behind how they became tainted/mixed with diabolic bloodlines, but I don't know it.

Orogs - Deep Orcs. They came about when an army of Mountain Orcs invaded Netheril and were forced to flee, but the retreat was cut off so they hid in a cave that led into the Underdark.

Svirfneblin - Deep Gnomes. When phaerimm invaded Netheril, several clans were forced to flee into the underdark, resulting in the founding of Blingdenstone and the eventual evolution from surface gnome to deep gnome.

Just about every race has a Underdark subrace that came about due to some kind of conflict between the race as a whole on the surface, but these are the only ones I know about. I've never heard of an Underdark Halfling before, but they probably exist in FR somewhere.

Alright, I guess plane-touched getting free languages is specified in DnD so I am okay with that (even though it makes little sense to me).

However I've never heard of such a thing as "true elves" and even the longest living elf will not exceed a millenia whereas the history of the Realms dates far beyond that. If you argue that old books are written in Ancient well that is the case for Humans as well. Besides Ancient is representative of at least dozens of pre-common languages, and specific study is required to acquire the skill.

As far as I know, Duergar, Drow, and Svirfneblin do not have their own languages and all speak Undercommon or some dialect of Elven, Dwarven, and Gnome. Drow Sign Language exists separately.

In FR the Drow, Duergar, and Svirfneblin all have their own separate languages(see War of The Spider Queen series, Legacy of the Drow series). Drow also use a finger cant. I agree this would be nice to see implemented, but innate languages don't seem to be very high on the priority list. I do agree with Isolrem on the Ancient language, however. I would consider that something like the study of Latin and other dead languages - it's something that scholars would take up so they could read old books in the original language.

I believe Ancient was said to be Netherese. I forget. I thought I'd updated the helpfile, but it looks to be its old explanation.

Maybe the discussion was never conclusive..

Selveem wrote:I believe Ancient was said to be Netherese. I forget. I thought I'd updated the helpfile, but it looks to be its old explanation.

I've always looked at Ancient as the Faerunian equivalent to Latin myself, though that might actually be Thorass. It seems a safe bet that it's a human language, but I'd love to know what, exactly, Ancient is supposed to be.

As far as "pre-common languages" go, there's actually lots of them, even among humans. That's because Common is just the trade language; it's actually pidgin Chondathan (a language spoken through most of Faerun). Since it's based on a pre-existing human language, it's a safe bet it's not the first one they spoke. Humans have a lot of different languages in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, but they also have Common as a second language. Prior to Common becoming popular, Thorass was the common trade language, and it's from Thorass that most human languages, including Common and Chondathan, get their alphabet.

I'm also of the mind that rare races automatically knowing equally rare languages doesn't make a lot of sense, but, then again, neither does having people descended from embodied elements. Seriously, how exactly does a half-elemental come to be? The physics of it are weird, though nowhere near as bizarre as half-golems... Anyway, it's strange, but it's a fantasy setting, so that happens sometimes. Necalli explained it well.

You can already become a half-fiend or half-angel by way of racial feats for the tiefling and aasimar races in Forgotten Kingdoms. About the same time those feats were added to the live port, it was hinted that the other plane-touched would eventually receive similar feats in time, so you might yet see a half-elemental in-game.

A little off-topic, but on the same vein of innate abilities, maybe the other four plane-touched could get a variation on the 'Bloodline of Fire' feat, but with the resistance and empowerment based on whichever element they embody, but also with an added ability they can use 1-3 times a day. Maybe something like: create water for water, produce flame for fire, burrow for earth, and refresh for air. All four are level one druid spells and make sense in connection to the four different elements.