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I suggest making an option of creating a higher level character. At a kismet cost. 100 kismet for each level? Or something. Starting always at level 1 can be a little annoying.

Edited because I liberally use the term "abuse". Will rewrite a more concise statement later to avoid further scrutinization.

To be fair, Trillarel didn't say what level nor exclude any possibility for prequalifiers.

If we were just talking about, say, level 10.. I'd agree with it as long as you've "unlocked" that on another character before.

I don't see it as "potential for abuse" (and I really dislike that the word "abuse" gets thrown around so often here, but that's a separate issue). If someone's reached level 10 on one class, why make them suffer through another character just to join a guild?

One thing, though, Trillarel. If you create a character at level 10, you may miss out on optional "starting feats" that you can only take before a certain level.

I agree, no higher than level 10. And a warning about missing optional feats.

Still, I think it could be a viable option. Prerequisites (such as having another character at least lvl 10) are also a good idea.

hmm,

A suggestion for this is that starting out at a higher level should give the impression, rp wise, that you've been busy. After all, it's not nice to see a shiny new level 10 alt running around naked and asking for help.

With that said, maybe we can make an OOC area where these characters can be built and let them start out with a certain amount of coin that gets zapped once they leave the OOC area. Say 50 plat.

In the OOC area, there are shops that sell basic armor, weapons, sheaths, anything a character might need, and then a trainer that teaches the feats that characters can have available to them that they must take at lower levels.

When the character leaves that area, they get their coin zapped and then they are leveled up to 10.

I'm not sure how I feel about this idea. In many ways I rather like the idea of optional starting 'perks' - things like starting with a choice of a few ranks of meditation, swim or mount/handle animal etc - but a character's level strikes me as sacred ground.

What was your motivation with this suggestion? There are plans afoot to make the first few levels significantly less laborious - so if generic boredom/futility/grinding were your main put-offs, hopefully these'll be addressed soon.

Lathlain wrote:What was your motivation with this suggestion? There are plans afoot to make the first few levels significantly less laborious - so if generic boredom/futility/grinding were your main put-offs, hopefully these'll be addressed soon.

For me, I find that grinding the first few levels is an exercise in endurance. After you have made over 30 characters, almost all of whom were past level 10, it gets preeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetty repetitive. Level 10, in particular, is the level that you actually finally get to guild (which I'm still not sure why this buffer is necessary after a certain amount of hours* are accrued anyhow). Some FMs have declined faithing my clerics until level 10, as well.

Combine this with the the number of mobs you need to kill as well as the amount of time it takes to kill them.. yeah, after one character of that class, you should already understand the difficulties enough that they needn't be repeated.

*Edited to change "levels" to "hours" as I meant to originally say.

I have to agree with Selveem. I understand why guilds won't take people below lvl 10, but spending approximately a week leveling to get to that level... especially if you have some alts... isn't much fun.

If there are changes being made to first few levels, it's fine with me, but there should be such an option for those who have enough kismet. Note that, if we take my suggestion:
lvl 2 char costs 100 kismet
lvl 3 - 200 kismet
lvl 4 - 300 kismet
lvl 5 - 400 kismet
lvl 6 - 500 kismet
lvl 7 - 600 kismet
lvl 8 - 700 kismet
lvl 9 - 800 kismet
lvl 10 - 900 kismet

Wow. I fall pretty strongly on the 'earn your levels' side. I don't even like that you can play a race with an ECL.

The week should not just be spent leveling but developing the history and rp of your character.

Anguin wrote:Wow. I fall pretty strongly on the 'earn your levels' side. I don't even like that you can play a race with an ECL.

I don't see why you would, considering you don't appear to get hp for for those levels and still get stunted in your growth of feats and stats.

Lathander wrote:The week should not just be spent leveling but developing the history and rp of your character.

Yeah, but developing the history of your character does not increase one's skills, stats, or level.

It still strikes me as a rather round-about means to an end - and I'm not really sure we're addressing it properly. If there are problems with the system, I'd much rather see them solved generally than allow older players to throw kismet at them until they go away.

To be a little more specific then: why level 10?

Is it because you'd like to be allowed to join a guild right away? If so, we ought to be discussing solutions to that - such as lower level requirements perhaps.

Is it because you can't stand killing dummies for a few levels before you're able to tackle other areas of the game? If so, maybe we ought to introduce a few easier alternative areas for new characters.

Is it that you'd rather just start with more money so you don't have to randomly batter murderous magical pinata in a temple basement for a few hours? If so, perhaps the DnD system of a starting purse has merit (I personally have my reservations about this, but that's a topic for later).

Let's get to the bottom of this!

Why not offer starting quests in the newbie areas with experience rewards?

It would speed you along and make it more interesting, even a chance to earn a bit of coin.

As has been mentioned in several threads - Harroghty is redoing the newbie areas, and there will be more options like so! :)


I fall very strongly under the no side for this. Like Anguin and Lathander say, earn your levels and develop your background and personality type in 1-10.

I'm tentatively for allowing kismet cost to start at level 10. But the cost should be such that you'd be feasibly unable to do this more than once or twice.

I have 7043 accumulated kismet under my account. That's an obscene amount of time that I'm sure a good amount of you have more than me (176 forty hour work weeks). If someone is willing to spend 1000 kismet to ignore those 4-6 hours of grinding on dummies, does it really matter?

I have always worried about making my character viable to explore reasonably on their own over PC interactions at the low end levels. PC history, personality, and general background...in my opinion, should be done in the character creation process as opposed to developed from unfolding PC to PC interactions. I understand everyone has a different process, but if you make the cost high enough it shouldn't really be an issue.

I'd certainly enjoy it.

Lathlain wrote:It still strikes me as a rather round-about means to an end - and I'm not really sure we're addressing it properly. If there are problems with the system, I'd much rather see them solved generally than allow older players to throw kismet at them until they go away.

To be a little more specific then: why level 10?

Is it because you'd like to be allowed to join a guild right away? If so, we ought to be discussing solutions to that - such as lower level requirements perhaps.

Is it because you can't stand killing dummies for a few levels before you're able to tackle other areas of the game? If so, maybe we ought to introduce a few easier alternative areas for new characters.

Is it that you'd rather just start with more money so you don't have to randomly batter murderous magical pinata in a temple basement for a few hours? If so, perhaps the DnD system of a starting purse has merit (I personally have my reservations about this, but that's a topic for later).

Let's get to the bottom of this!

All three, a bit by bit, mostly numbers 2 and 3. Easier areas for newbies would be great - my first characters got creamed by a bandit on lvl 1 and 2 respectively.
A starting purse would be a good idea too. Even though you can earn gold fairly quickly by getting bandit scalps... The guild is a good incentive to reach that level 10, however, and I wouldn't change that.

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I have always worried about making my character viable to explore reasonably on their own over PC interactions at the low end levels. PC history, personality, and general background...in my opinion, should be done in the character creation process as opposed to developed from unfolding PC to PC interactions. I understand everyone has a different process, but if you make the cost high enough it shouldn't really be an issue.

That's my point of view exactly. I want to be able to survive before I start making much interaction. However, I believe that PC history, personality, background can reasonably be developed from interaction, not char creation.

EDIT: I think most of the issues could be hopefully fixed, please, by
a) revamping the starting area - I understand that's what's being done right now, so I'll hold my horses here
b) having a newbie guide in site. As a "help newbie" or something like that. Where people would find a list of most important commands, the list of cities actually in-game [note, I get the point that those in-construction are understood to be there ICly, but it doesn't help a starving character to arrive at such a place and realize she's got nowhere to buy food from, even though she should have from an IC standpoint], information that guilds are available from lvl 10, information on when the gates close and some general tips to the effect of: don't venture too far from your hometown, remember to have food and drink with you, remember that you have free recall until level 10; remember that death is not the end, and you can find your corpse in Kelemvor's conservatory... that sort of stuff.

What do you think about such "help newbie"?

That sounds good to me, for sure! Much better than a levels-for-kismet system, in my opinion.

The entire newbie experience is up for review at the minute - not just the Font of Knowledge, but the Path of Life as well now - and knowing what sorts of tips and lessons to provide new players in the process is very useful indeed. Once it's all done, you can expect to be deposited in Waterdeep with a few levels under your belt, a little starting gear and a modest purse of gold.

I rather like the idea of a newbie help resource as well, just provided it doesn't go into too much IC detail. Basic 'Help! What does it mean when...?' instructions would make a lot of sense though. I'll scratch my head on it.

On the mud I came from, you weren't allowed in game unless you submitted the following for your character:

a short description of your character (Adjective here)

a long description (desc here)

and a written background or your character's back story.

I'm not saying we should copy that but... It has become a habit for me and I've done so with my current two characters.

My third alt is in the noob training area and having some difficulty getting out given that he's a gnomish wizard that can't really hurt things once you run him out of spells. (also because I havent' desc'd him yet)

I guess the point I'm making here is that you could have similar requirements for kismet leveled characters in which a submitted back-story would be a requirement to address what Lathander would like to see done. That way, a great deal of thought still needs to go into the character.