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I'm noticing some strangeness while trying to smelt ingots together. It could just be my own inexperience, but I thought I'd report it just in case.

The problem I'm noticing is that sometimes the game seems to not count correctly. For example:
For some reason, even though I had the same amount of iron as I did silver, the silver ran no problem. This has happened a couple times now, and it seems (so far) to only be happening to me with iron.

EDIT: Shortly after submitting this, I discovered a bit more. It seems to only happen with "worthless-grade" and when you have more than two ore. Example:
As you can see, as soon as I dropped my number carried down to two, it went through no problem.

Not sure how important this is, since it's pretty easy to just drop stuff, but figured I'd report it.

Thanks!

I've been doing some testing on this already, and ran into a similar situation. I was able to get it to happen with just two worthless ingots in hand, though: I think it is a simple matter of having two incompatible ingots in hand at once, in your case at the top of the "pile." I can't reproduce it with new worthless ingots, arrived at in myriad ways, on the testport. That makes me suspect that the issue may have been an old ingot, from before the latest tweaks to the ingot scoring system. I'll nuke all my worthless ingots on the game port, and see if I can get it to happen again. Good news is that at present I can produce plenty of worthless ingots!

Thanks for the report! I'll keep this one open until I can test this aspect out.

I can't give any examples, as i'm typing this on my phone, but I have a minor followup.

i'm not positive, but it seems like the problem for me was coming from ingots that were re-smelted. After some very annoying testing, I managed to seperate my ingots into two one-time smelted, and two re-smelted. At that point, it worked fine. When I tried with all four in the same stack, it constantly failed. If it has to do with the re-smelted ingots, I suspect this is because it was trying to smelt first-time smelted with re-smelted. Not sure what could be causing that, though, since they should be different instances of the exact same object.

Hello! I seem to be running into a bug that reminds me of the old varying types of metal issue we had on the old smithing/mining system.

I have smelted some iron ore into 'low-grade ingots of iron' at Brians Smithy. They show in my inventory now as:

You are carrying:
( 9) a low-grade ingot of iron (perfect)
14 copper coins (superb)
25 platinum coins (superb)
2 electrum coins (superb)
42 gold coins (superb)

When I try to 'smelt ingot' I get a:

You do not have enough of a low-grade ingot of iron to re-smelt it.

When I try to 'construct weapon 'broad sword' ingot medium' I get a:

You don't have enough of a low-grade ingot of iron to make an iron broad sword.

Finally, the last clue is when I 'put all' into a container I get:

You put a low-grade ingot of iron in a large black leather ore bag.
You put a low-grade ingot of iron in a large black leather ore bag.
You put a low-grade ingot of iron in a large black leather ore bag.
You put a low-grade ingot of iron in a large black leather ore bag.
You put a low-grade ingot of iron in a large black leather ore bag.
You put a low-grade ingot of iron in a large black leather ore bag.
You put a low-grade ingot of iron in a large black leather ore bag.
You put a low-grade ingot of iron in a large black leather ore bag.

These all make me think that even though they are all 'low-grade ingots' they have some sort of different quality that is making them each unique items. If I can help in any additional way, let me know.

And thanks for listening!

Todd

Any avid tradesmen up to try to diagnose this further in light of a more recent report?

I can take a look at this as soon as I have a few free moments(hours). Will keep you posted.

They're all set to different qualities. This was supposed to be reflected in the adjective (worthless/inferior/outstanding, etc.). You can see this as it shows multiple lines going back into your bag instead of just one.

A lot of times, this happens when you smelt ore that was mined before the changes.

The only way to effectively manage this is to drop the ingots onto the ground and see how they stack. From what I can see, you might only have one of each type and thus, can't do anything with it (other than make arrowheads).

Just a follow up on this with some more info.

I mined up some silver ore and took it back to Brians to smelt it. I kept it all in my inventory to make sure that I didn't intermingle it with any possible old ore in my bag. I smelted it all down and had 8 'low-grade ingot of silver' left. I tried to smelt it to improve the quality and got the error that I didn't have enough to do it. I then tried to construct a dagger and also got the error that I didn't have enough to do it.

I then took Athons advice and dropped it all to see if it stacked in several groups in the room. When I dropped it I got the following echo:


You drop a low-grade ingot of silver.
You drop a high-grade ingot of silver.
You drop a high-grade ingot of silver.
You drop a low-grade ingot of silver.
You drop a low-grade ingot of silver.
You drop an average-grade ingot of silver.
You drop a low-grade ingot of silver.
You drop a low-grade ingot of silver.
You drop a low-grade ingot of silver.
You drop a high-grade ingot of silver.
You drop a low-grade ingot of silver.
You drop a low-grade ingot of silver.

When I 'looked' at the room it was all stacked in one pile of 8 'low-grade ingot of silver'.

And here is where it gets strange. I picked it all up again and tried to smelt the 'low-grade ingot of silver' to improve the quality....and it worked! I then tried to construct a weapon with the low grade ingot and it worked as well!

To sum up, when I originally smelt the ore I couldn't do anything with the ingots because of the 'don't have enough' error. But when I dropped them and picked them back up I suddenly could do it.

Just some more info to chew on.

Todd

Let me see if I can explain this correctly....
So I am trying to create a belt buckle. With 4 ingots of the same grade metal and 3 of the same stone in my inventory. I get the echo "You do not have enough base material to make that." So I pull out more metal and gems. I have 5 of each in my inventory and then it finally crafts the item. The weird thing is, that once it is done, I have 3 ingots of metal left and 4 stones. Why do I have to have so many in my inventory when it only uses two ingots of metal and one gem?

Perhaps Algon's lapidary problem is related?

Roderick:

Sorry, I should be more clear. Typing 'look' won't break them apart. You have to have VT100 on and see what's lying on the ground. You'll see something like this.

(1) a low-quality ingot of silver
(1) a low-quality ingot of silver
(4) a low-quality ingot of silver
(1) a low-quality ingot of silver
(1) a low-quality ingot of silver

That all have different 'qualities' as per the game by technically they're all low-quality in terms of the trade. You typically have to navigate around these pieces of bad ore/ingots to get the usable ones. In this case, the quantity in (4) would all work together but they would not work with any others in the room.

As for you getting some success, you could have picked up a stack that contained 2+ pieces that were the same code-wise. Did all the pieces work or just some?

Harroghty wrote:Perhaps Algon's lapidary problem is related?

Yes, Algon's issue is directly related. That have the same adjective (low, high, etc.) but somehow, they have something different triggered behind-the-scenes.

If you want an example, I probably have some pieces that are still like this on Thorden. Maybe you could ostat them and see what's different?

Not today, but leave them in his inventory and I will check it out when I am able. Thanks.

This came up before, but I thought we had it fixed:
http://www.forgottenkingdoms.org//board ... lt+quality

But now I can readily (but not always!) reproduce the problem, with a very odd fix. Namely, I can smelt a bunch of metal, put it all in a bag, pick two samples of the same quality out of the bag, and try to re-smelt them. As often as not, when I try I get something like
You do not have enough of a low-grade ingot of titanium to re-smelt it.
However, if I drop those very same two ingots and pick them up TOGETHER, it works. If I pick them up separately, it does not.

On the technical side, they can OSTAT differently after being dropped. ID, VALUE0, VALUE4, and the second value for WEIGHT can change. But if you pick them up separately, they then OSTAT identically and still can not be smelted together...so that's not the root problem, perhaps just a symptom. However, the ingots always fail to combine when one has ID = -1 and the other has ID = 0 (and they otherwise OSTAT identically save for serial #).

Concretely:
You are carrying:
( 2) (42) a high-grade ingot of titanium (perfect)
SMELT INGOT
You do not have enough of a high-grade ingot of titanium to re-smelt it.
You drop a high-grade ingot of titanium.
You drop a high-grade ingot of titanium.
GET INGOT
You get a high-grade ingot of titanium.
GET INGOT
You get a high-grade ingot of titanium.
SMELT INGOT
You do not have enough of a high-grade ingot of titanium to re-smelt it.
You drop a high-grade ingot of titanium.
You drop a high-grade ingot of titanium.
GET ALL.INGOT
You get a high-grade ingot of titanium.
(2 ingots have now been picked up - the exact same two that failed to work before.)
SMELT INGOT
You melt the impurities from a high-grade ingot of titanium.
You shape a superior-grade ingot of titanium on your anvil.
You quench a superior-grade ingot of titanium with a loud hiss.

This is definitely one for Mask to handle, but I'm not sure it merits priority. I've seen a lot of bugs, but this has to be one of the most bizarre I've ever encountered. Might be a bear to fix. Then again there might be a parameter that doesn't show up in OSTAT that offers a simple explanation, and a simple fix. But in the meantime, this trick (GET ALL.INGOT) might be a workaround for all you hard working metal-workers out there.

Keep this in mind:

This applies to more than just re-smelting of ingots. This applies to crafting as well. I have to drop all my material to craft now (assuming I took the items from my cart/bag). I find that it's just easier to work straight from the ground than fuss with my inventory.

Confirmed this is the case...and there is a potential problem, in that you can only make a set of raw materials conform (be considered the same) by picking them all up at once. So if your PC can only hold 5 items, and you need to craft something that requires 6 identical ingots, for example, you won't be able to do so without help, at least in some cases. That elevates this in terms of the importance of getting it fixed.

Should hides still be having different types now that they get a grade? Hard to word that question.

So basically, I have 11 hides here of the same grade.


(11) the inferior-grade tanned hide of a griffon (perfect)


So these should all work together, now that the grade parts are coded in at all, however when I drop them you will notice:


You drop the inferior-grade tanned hide of a griffon.
You drop the inferior-grade tanned hide of a griffon.
You drop the inferior-grade tanned hide of a griffon.
You drop the inferior-grade tanned hide of a griffon.

Four different 'types'.

On the vt they appear as 3 stacks of 3 and one stack of 2. So even though they're all inferior, they're somehow still making themselves different from eachother, and unable to be used together to construct anything:


(11) the inferior-grade tanned hide of a griffon (perfect)
You don't have enough of the inferior-grade tanned hide of a griffon to make a leather arming cap.
You don't have enough of the inferior-grade tanned hide of a griffon to make leather ankle boots.
You don't have enough of the inferior-grade tanned hide of a griffon to make leather gauntlets.
You don't have enough of the inferior-grade tanned hide of a griffon to make a leather cuiret.
You don't have enough of the inferior-grade tanned hide of a griffon to make leather cuishes.
You don't have enough of the inferior-grade tanned hide of a griffon to make a leather girtle.

Before with any raw material and no grade listed in their desc looking at the vt was how we sorted the grades, so now the grades have grades it seems? I'm not sure that's how this should be working! :)

Hm, I grabbed them all and moved rooms and got them to become a group of 6 and 5 -- then to 1, 1 4 and 5. It's super wonky.

Hides now also. This problem appears to affect all trade raw materials with differing qualities.

Temporary workaround, in my experience:
Drop them all, then pick up the number you need, all at once:
GET 5 'inferior hide'
That seems to make them all play nice together, for reasons I still can't figure out.

I haven't had any luck crafting off the floor (with items that don't work when held), but picking them up definitely changes them somehow.