Forgotten Kingdoms Forums

c 'enlarge person' self
Unable to apply 'persistent spell' to spells that can be cast on others.
Cast this on yourself? Very well.
You begin to chant.

<100%hp 100m 100%mv>
A pinch of powdered iron glows briefly and a wisp of smoke rises from it.
You resist the effects of your spell.

The same thing happened when I tried c 'enlarge person' Laroremas.

Afterwards, I did this:

lower
You do not have resistance to spells to lower!

And after that, I tried to cast enlarge person again, to no avail and the same "error" message.

My size was medium the entire time.

I tried searching the forums for this, so if there is another topic on it, I apologize. Enlarge person has always worked for me in the past up until (roughly) two days ago.

I can concur that my Tyrran is also experiencing this problem.

A rather helpful immortal has helped me to discover that this affects all plane-touched at present.

This wasn't obvious to me so I do not mean to imply by my reply that it should have been to you, nor that it wasn't otherwise in the past, but

Reduce and enlarge person ONLY operate on race category = humanoid (thanks, Selveem!).

Aasimar are categorized as race category = outsider, as are other planetouched races.

Checking against d20, I think this is working (or in the case of planetouched beings, NOT working) as it should. If you can argue otherwise, this is the place to do so, but for now I'm marking this as not a bug.

Does race category = human also cover other races, e.g. elves, halfelves?

I will need to check to be sure, but I'm pretty sure that the last time I tried to use reduce person on a halfelf the same resist message was also returned.

Right!

Half-elves, elves, and etc., are humanoid, which is the category enlarge/reduce person works on. Technically aasimar are 'humanoid' too, from the perspective of having arms, legs, etc., but aren't considered it for the purposes of determining which spells affect them (ie. hold 'person' also doesn't work on them either since it specifically works on humanoids, and is coded as such in FK).

The only PC races these spells shouldn't be working on are the planetouched ones, ie. genasi, tieflings, and aasimar.

Sorry, what Enig said. I mistakenly said Race Category = human rather than humanoid, hence the confusion. (Went back and fixed it now.) But these spells should be working on PCs except the planetouched ones he mentioned and centaurs, wemics, and (who are monstrous humanoids), I think.

If you have questions about another specific race, or experience to the contrary that you can't figure out, please ask here.

I've attempted to update the spell echoes to give more of a hint as to why this is happening, or at least not lead folks toward the conclusion that resistances are involved, as well as make this limitation clear in the helpfile.

Thanks for the report/query!

Okay! Confirmed that it works on a halfelf. I don't know what I was thinking of from before but if it wasn't working then, it is now.

Lirith wrote:Okay! Confirmed that it works on a halfelf. I don't know what I was thinking of from before but if it wasn't working then, it is now.

I don't know how it's coded in FK, but technically an unwilling character is supposed to get a defensive fortitude roll against enlarge or reduce person spells.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/reducePerson.htm

Maybe if they aren't in your party they get such a roll?

Selveem wrote:

Lirith wrote:Okay! Confirmed that it works on a halfelf. I don't know what I was thinking of from before but if it wasn't working then, it is now.

I don't know how it's coded in FK, but technically an unwilling character is supposed to get a defensive fortitude roll against enlarge or reduce person spells.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/reducePerson.htm

Maybe if they aren't in your party they get such a roll?

Well, no. I agree that is how it should work, but at present there is no save. I just tried adding one in, and then the problem is that if the target is in your group, they still get a save.

Is there a spell currently in place that does this right? I'm not sure if the hard code is there to do this, and if it is, I don't know the spell code to put it into place. But you are right that it isn't working as it should at present, in this respect.

I believe that flamestrike will have rules similar to what you are looking for Raona, although, the save is reflex there and not fortitude.

At any rate, this makes me a little sad, but it is by no means game breaking (for me). I'm glad to see more D&D 3.5e rules making their way into the game, because they help to give a pretty solid feeling.

Personally speaking, I don't feel Native Outsiders (Aasimar, Tiefling, all Genasai subtypes) should be classed as Outsider at all. They are far removed from their ancestors and native to this plane. Due to this and in addition to the fact that their physiology is much the same as most other humanoids, I feel they should be affected by normal spells that would affect other humanoids.

This brings up a fair question, too. Are high level Monks affected by Enlarge and Reduce person? They aren't even considered Native Outsiders once they reach level 20 (50 in FK); they're considered normal Outsider due to the Perfect Self skill they automatically obtain.

Problem is, Flamestrike is an AOE. Enlarge/reduce are single target spells.

Laroremas wrote:I believe that flamestrike will have rules similar to what you are looking for Raona, although, the save is reflex there and not fortitude.

Thanks for the suggestion! Alas, Tarven is right in that there must be ally logic built into the AOE engine that's missing from the single target spell code, because there's nothing there that looks as though it might help. The logic is reversed, too, in that with Flamestrike you want 0% chance it impacts your group members, while with enlarge/reduce you want a 100% chance. It might require an enhancement request to get enlarge/reduce to work this way, and it won't be high priority, so this will happen when Marty has more time. For now, it will operate without a save. If we observe it being misused as a combative spell as a result, it'll probably be disabled, or a save added for everyone, so please don't do that. Thanks!