Forgotten Kingdoms Forums

I just recently started a new wizard, a process that has become EXTREMELY frustrating/tedious. Now I'm sure you're used to me griping about something by now and I'm probably beating a dead horse here. I've already mentioned some suggestions in another thread. But I have another suggestion that won't break any game mechanics and will reward veteran players while still putting new chars through the ropes of learning FK (which I believe is useful).

I have more than 2000 kismet that is being unused. I've made a couple rare races before, but that's not really my cup of tea. So why not allow me (and anyone else) to exchange kismet to auto-advance levels of my choosing up to 10? For example, I can go to a mob in a temple and exchange 50 kismet (or whatever is deemed fair) and get set to 100% XP.

The grind from 1-10 isn't very valuable when you've done it 20+ times. All I'm doing is stockpiling coins while spending hours upon hours (30+, only level 9) of non-RP just to get to level 10. This isn't a case of "well, you're a wizard, it's supposed to be hard" (which is an extremely poor argument). By using my suggested system, I'm skipping out on the 'benefits' of being sub-level 10 (aka, easy coin and protection in the temple), so there is some decision-making. It's not going to hurt the game. It's not going to make anything OP. But it is going to make starting a new character fun again.

Agreed, especially for wizards. Nearly all of their usefulness starts around level 10. I think it's a fair trade off, as that easy source of coin from the dummies, won't easily be replaced. And wizards go through a -lot- of coin.

If it were to be brought in, it should only be for wizards and rogues. My opinion.

Gwain wrote:If it were to be brought in, it should only be for wizards and rogues. My opinion.

Why?

I've only experience significant difficulties leveling to lv 10 on a rogue and wizard. I've noticed a lot of postings on the forums detailing the difficulties of leveling wizards to lv 10, I used to see ones detailing rogues but not so much anymore. I think that warriors and clerics might be sufficiently designed for the current game world enough to not warrant a quick transition to lv 10. However if those that would design or control this process think differently, then I'd simply go with the flow.

I don't think the easiness of the class should really play a factor. Warriors and melee-oriented priests can breeze through the sub-10 levels, so in effect, the kismet exchange isn't as valuable for those classes. But this is more about saving a veteran player's time, not balancing classes.

I doubt most veteran players would bother using the exchange on clerics and warriors, because it's so easy to level them. But I don't see any reason why they shouldn't have the same options as rogues or wizards.

Have played a rogue and recently started by first wizard, I love this idea. Absolutely love it. As you mentioned, for someone who has earned the kismet and been through the grind, they know when to take advantage of an option like this. As such, I see no reason to both with codes that might restrict it to certain classes and the like. Great suggestion.

I see no reason to remove part of the whole experience simply because a player is a veteran. Strikes me as a bit elitist, and exactly the sort of thing to DISCOURAGE new players.

I'm on my second wizard...this one even more difficult than the last to level, and I don't care. I'm spending the time working on my character, and learning patience if I don't already have it.

And, meaning no offense, but if starting a new character isn't fun simply because it's a new character, then you're playing the wrong game.

I agree and disagree, so I'll explain in a longish rather boring to most reply post that involves my experiences as a DM, and gives my 2 half-coppers.

I agree that the first 10 levels of FK are the most boring, primarily because of the lack of RP, the heavy focus on grinding, and the lack of skills. I've started 6 characters, and even my warriors have taken a while to level. Not as bad as my wizards, none of which I've gotten past level 7 because I've tired out of grinding, but still not as fun as leveling my Ranger or my main Fighter.
In the world I built, I gave the option to give up character life expectancy, in the form of age with the assumption that most characters rolled are around 16-19 yo, for years spent training in their respective church. From levels 2-5 its 1 yr/level 6-8 2yrs/level and so on. With the max being level 12, and the overall cap being level 50.
Kismet for levels is an interesting option, but I would wonder if it would create an elitist culture or over run the game with wizards, or both. Perhaps something similar to the new crafting system where the kismet is spent but the levels must be earned with offline time. Just a thought, as this still means time must be spent on the character but without the grinding involved. The other thing to do would be to restrict characters who begin this process from using the Snookery or other areas similar (I haven't been in any so not sure on that.)

I disagree with the idea that it should be class based, as I've stated I have four warriors. Two are fighters now, one is a Ranger, and one will become a fighter. Only my first one, and namesake on here, was easy to level and that was thanks to Kinni, who helped me level until she hit 10 and was able to move on.
My ranger took forever to level, and still takes a while to level, my second fighter is does fine in a group but otherwise is slow to gain xp. I only play three of my characters often enough to mention them, and all of them are melee based classes. All three have taken a long time to level up, if I had the option when I started my Ranger, or my second fighter, to trade in Kismet and offline time to level them a bit easier and faster I would have.

It can even be required RP that we complete challenges, like mini quests, for our levels. Make it in blocks, so we expend 100 kismet or whatever's considered fair, to get to level 5 but we need to answer some questions about our class, about FK, and then go kill something relatively equal to us, but still a challenge. Making vets RP their leveling is easy enough since we're supposed to be veteran RPers anyways. It adds a little fun for those who've run their characters' courses and want to start something new. It provides new players with something to look forward to, and who knows. If we all really like it, perhaps we just make that our new newbie starter. I'll admit that I spent days in that first dungeon just trying to level so I didn't have to face the wyvern-in-your-face grind through the dummies.

I have had several characters over the last five years, over all of the classes. The only thing I have found being difficult to level is wizards, but once you get over a breaking point, usually level 16, I don't find it to be hard. I find joining the school, or a guild to be far harder than training/leveling.

Honestly, I don't find training, or leveling to be hard at all. When I joined this game, the first character I ever made was a wizard, and she took me over two years to get to level 50 with many accidents, and mishaps along the way. My point in saying this is, if you really want to level, you will find away. Group up, find a partner, do a few quests. The drag from level 1 - 10 is really not so bad if you know how to get past it, and know what to look for, and where to train. It's all part of learning this game, and surviving. Also, not being so focused on, I need to get to this level, and be this strong, makes it better when starting a character. Get your RP rolling as soon as you can, and don't hesitate to ask others to join you.

Personally, I don't agree with a kismet exchange for levels. I enjoy going out, and getting them myself, and have done so probably 50+ times. I wouldn't want to skip out on something I can do myself. That's just my opinion though!

Tyeslan wrote: I find joining the school, or a guild to be far harder than training/leveling.

This is very, very true. I pointed out in a post about the SoW that we should give a bit more IC information about the guildes.

Tyeslan wrote: My point in saying this is, if you really want to level, you will find away. Group up, find a partner, do a few quests. The drag from level 1 - 10 is really not so bad if you know how to get past it, and know what to look for, and where to train. It's all part of learning this game, and surviving. Also, not being so focused on, I need to get to this level, and be this strong, makes it better when starting a character. Get your RP rolling as soon as you can, and don't hesitate to ask others to join you.

As a player that tends to play evil-aligned characters, this can be extremely difficult, especially with the primary population of characters are good. Evil characters create interesting RP and tensions, and I do not think they should be punished (by making it harder to level) because of this alignment.

I've had evils galore, and never had trouble getting them up, and running. You might have to do things alone for awhile, but it happens. Put feelers out to find someone to come help you train, or RP. They might be difficult in RP terms, but they really aren't more difficult to level, or stick into a crowd. Evils are hated, it happens! Getting to level 10 with a kismet exchange, isn't going to change how difficult they can be.

I am satisfied with the current system.

Having just levelled a rogue from level 1 to 10, which took me 44 hours (!), I fully support this idea. My God was that boring. Sitting in the temple typing "kill dummy; rest; kill dummy" repeatedly while sitting at the computer reading a book contributes nothing to either the game or my (or other people's) enjoyment of it.

Either there should be a way for more experienced players to skip this (perhaps in exchange for kismet, as suggested), or the experience for very low-level characters should be more interesting. (Sure, "do RP", but what RP can a level 2 evil-aligned rogue from a city other than Waterdeep really do RP-wise?)

I don't mean this to sound like a complaint, but I realise it comes off that way, so I'll offer something else to make up for it: if people think it would be useful, I'm willing to build a large newbie (< L10) area for every starting city, to replace (or supplement) the tables, containing a variety of terrain, mobs / races, and perhaps a couple of quests. Would that at least be less soul-destroying than killing dummies in the temple all day?

Tamryn wrote:Having just levelled a rogue from level 1 to 10, which took me 44 hours (!), I fully support this idea. My God was that boring. Sitting in the temple typing "kill dummy; rest; kill dummy" repeatedly while sitting at the computer reading a book contributes nothing to either the game or my (or other people's) enjoyment of it.

Either there should be a way for more experienced players to skip this (perhaps in exchange for kismet, as suggested), or the experience for very low-level characters should be more interesting. (Sure, "do RP", but what RP can a level 2 evil-aligned rogue from a city other than Waterdeep really do RP-wise?)

I don't mean this to sound like a complaint, but I realise it comes off that way, so I'll offer something else to make up for it: if people think it would be useful, I'm willing to build a large newbie (< L10) area for every starting city, to replace (or supplement) the tables, containing a variety of terrain, mobs / races, and perhaps a couple of quests. Would that at least be less soul-destroying than killing dummies in the temple all day?

I think I suggested a similar kismet for starting above lvl 1 solution. I agree completely that while it's needed for newbies, it becomes annoying when you're on your 5th+ character.

Tamryn wrote:Having just levelled a rogue from level 1 to 10, which took me 44 hours (!), I fully support this idea. My God was that boring. Sitting in the temple typing "kill dummy; rest; kill dummy" repeatedly while sitting at the computer reading a book contributes nothing to either the game or my (or other people's) enjoyment of it.

Either there should be a way for more experienced players to skip this (perhaps in exchange for kismet, as suggested), or the experience for very low-level characters should be more interesting. (Sure, "do RP", but what RP can a level 2 evil-aligned rogue from a city other than Waterdeep really do RP-wise?)

I don't mean this to sound like a complaint, but I realise it comes off that way, so I'll offer something else to make up for it: if people think it would be useful, I'm willing to build a large newbie (< L10) area for every starting city, to replace (or supplement) the tables, containing a variety of terrain, mobs / races, and perhaps a couple of quests. Would that at least be less soul-destroying than killing dummies in the temple all day?

As a thief/bard lover I can tell you, what I think that is the problem. Rogues, the unguilded class need either the thief skills/bard spells to be competent and able, time ago I thought of suggesting that paying X kismet you could begin with a guilded rogue although in the end I didn't suggest it because it would cause different problems of their own, not to mention that if you haven't attended the thief/bard lessons you might miss what is expected of a thief/bard from a RP standpoint.

In these cases my only solution has been seeking fellow players (lower areas with just another player are very viable), and getting guilded ASAP.

Personally a way in which lower characters could find each other easily would be nice.

I think the solution is to make it easier to reach level 10 rather than to give special options to those who have the kismet. The difficulties people have right now are a deterrent to new players.

Alitar wrote:I think the solution is to make it easier to reach level 10 rather than to give special options to those who have the kismet. The difficulties people have right now are a deterrent to new players.

+1 to this

Since new players are bound to Waterdeep, perhaps more lower level quests could be added that reward experience upon completation. Also players under X kismet are given somehow a new buff <blessing tymora/blessing of beshaba> that makes them enough durable to reach level 10 with more ease?

I'm thinking maybe the level of the dummies might be increased while their stats are kept the same. Simple way of giving more experience for your grinding.