Forgotten Kingdoms Forums

Hello. I noticed on Mouat the other day that he had a armour penalty of -1. I asked on ask for assistance with that. I was told that it is his studded leather equipment. I found one piece to replace and wore it and noticed it was still at armour penalty -1. I proceeded to remove the only other studded leather he was wearing and checked his armour penalty. It was still at -1.

So, then I removed the new sleeves I bought and was still at -1. So, I looked very closely at his eq, and decided to remove his shield. I checked armour penalty at it was now set to 0. I put on my new leather sleeves and checked again... armour penalty at 0. I put on the studded leather leggings and armour peanlty was still at 0.

So, long story short, his studded leather armour was not causing the armour penalty of -1, it was his shield. now the problem arises that his shield is one he bought from the shop for the rangers of Order of the SHooting stars in the Mystran temple of Waterdeep. When examined, it is a light armor, but it is metal and it does indicate on the description of the object that it is a shield for the Order of Shooting Stars.

My thinking, is a shield for rangers of Mystra, should not give an armour penalty for a ranger of mystra?

Plus Mouat has armor proficiency trained twice, shouldn't he get some leway on equipment?

Thanks in advance for any assistance you can provide

Mouat

This object (i15428) is armor type 18 (light metal shield) and should not impose a penalty to someone with the shield profiency feat. Is this a bug or just a case of a help file that should be updated?

This would be an inaccurate helpfile. By Pathfinder, -1 is the proper armor check penalty. Shield Proficiency allows you to use it without that penalty also applying to attack rolls.

Does that behaviour of Shield Proficiency apply to all shield types?

All but tower shields. They are affected by tower shield proficiency.

I have updated the help file for SHIELDS to match the actual behaviour, which also seems to match what SRD says (in its usual roundabout way).

According to SRD, the armour check penalty should also affect Str and Dex based skills when the user is not proficient. I'm not sure this is actually working though.
Edit: moving this to resolved anyway because that's a separate issue.

Tamryn wrote:I have updated the help file for SHIELDS to match the actual behaviour, which also seems to match what SRD says (in its usual roundabout way).

According to SRD, the armour check penalty should also affect Str and Dex based skills when the user is not proficient. I'm not sure this is actually working though.

Code: Select all

Skill check on poison weapon, Modifier was 0, chance:59, percent:33 : success
You mix black poisoning powder and water from a waterskin, creating a deadly poison!
You realise that you are not proficient in using bucklers, and will be 
clumsy while wearing a hide buckler.
You hold a hide buckler in your left hand.
Riverr gives you black poisoning powder.
Skill check on poison weapon, Modifier was 0, chance:59, percent:25 : success
You mix black poisoning powder and water from a waterskin, creating a deadly poison!

Edit: moving this to resolved anyway because that's a separate issue.

Okay, I am not sure why this is resolved. If Mouat doesn't wear the shield, he incurs no armor penalty. But if he wears this shield for rangers, he gets an armor penalty of -1%. Mouat has been using shields since he was created which was pretty darn close to when the game started. He has two feats trained in armor proficiency, he has the shield proficiency trained and he is journeyman in shieldwork.

Thanks for any clarification on this issue.

Mouat

P.S. I tried to send a reply before, but not sure it went through, so if this comes through a second time, my apologies.

That -1 armor penalty appears to relate to shields in general regardless of shield material (wooden or metal), type (light or heavy), or the wielder's class.

Mouat wrote:Okay, I am not sure why this is resolved. If Mouat doesn't wear the shield, he incurs no armor penalty. But if he wears this shield for rangers, he gets an armor penalty of -1%.

Basically what Nylo said: you will always get an armour check penalty for wearing a shield, so this is how it's meant to work. The purpose of the shield proficiency feat is to prevent that penalty also apply to your attack rolls and a few other skills.

According to SRD,

Shield Proficiency [General]

Benefit
You can use a shield and take only the standard penalties.

Normal
When you are using a shield with which you are not proficient, you take the shield’s armor check penalty on attack rolls and on all skill checks that involve moving, including Ride checks.

The "standard penalties" are those described here under "Armor Check Penalty".

Perhaps this has changed recently? I'm not sure (I don't use shields on any characters). The current behaviour does appear to be correct, though.