Forgotten Kingdoms Forums

Hello! I was checking out Cahir's skill list today and noticed that hitall still shows on that list. If I recall, and I may not entirely, the skill was disabled because it basically allowed a fighter to spam extra attacks with his primary weapon at no cost. I was wondering if this skill had been looked at since the changes to combat rounds, and whether there was any interest in it--it doesn't seem like it would be unbalanced with those aforementioned changes, and does offer some utility.

So yeah, hitall discussion thread? Possible change to "whirlwind attack?"

I seem to recall a thread on whirlwind attack not too long ago. The consideration was what it would look like, do you simply forgo your full round of attacks in order to do some fixed damage to everyone in the room? Or perhaps you divide your standard five attacks among opponents in the room with increasing penalties to hit. It also brings to mind the combat reflexes feat, particularly in the case of rogues. I don't know if it is limited to a single target or not, but it would be nice to see them with a chance of getting attacks of opportunity on multiple enemies in a round.

I have serious interest in this skill as it seems like an incredibly valuable skill to fighters, especially higher level ones.

I can understand some need to look at the way the coding of it works but I feel like HitAll really needs review and a trainer for it. My suggestion is that it hits most to all the available targets in the room but that the skill level mitigates the damage done and it uses up a full round, perhaps the lightning reflexes feat can remove an AOO on this sort of skill (but that it happens automatically during combat like disarm, parry, riposte, etc.)

I think it is fair.

You forbade your full round of attacks against a single enemy and instead you make a single attack against each enemy in the same room, it's meant to fight hordes of weak enemies rather than a few strong enemies.

What the guy above me said.

You give up all 5 attacks (up to) so that you can make a single attack on all foes. Makes perfect sense to me from a balance standpoint as well.

EDIT: heck, if you really wanted to get crazy, make it so for each opponent in the room, you have a -5 chance to hit as it goes down the list... starting at 1st attack AB of course.

Bronson wrote:What the guy above me said.

You give up all 5 attacks (up to) so that you can make a single attack on all foes. Makes perfect sense to me from a balance standpoint as well.

EDIT: heck, if you really wanted to get crazy, make it so for each opponent in the room, you have a -5 chance to hit as it goes down the list... starting at 1st attack AB of course.

Yeah, and it'd already be gated by a skill check and then the attack roll. I see it more of use when a high level warrior is fighting mobs of low level critters like goblins.

Wouldn't hitall be counter-productive when fighting a bunch of low-level enemies? In Starcraft, we do this thing called "focus fire" where the goal is to eliminate one enemy at a time. If the enemy is dead, they can't fire back. Killing six or seven enemies one at a time results in less damage taken than killing them all at once.
Even if I can spread out my five attacks, I don't see a scenario when it is useful, except for adding flavor to combat (Whirlwind Slash!).

Terageld wrote:Wouldn't hitall be counter-productive when fighting a bunch of low-level enemies? In Starcraft, we do this thing called "focus fire" where the goal is to eliminate one enemy at a time. If the enemy is dead, they can't fire back. Killing six or seven enemies one at a time results in less damage taken than killing them all at once.
Even if I can spread out my five attacks, I don't see a scenario when it is useful, except for adding flavor to combat (Whirlwind Slash!).

It absolutely would be counterproductive except in cases where you're fighting creatures which die in one round anyway.

Otherwise focus fire is your best friend since even a heavily wounded enemy still hits as hard as an unwounded one. I'll also point out that teams which have mastered that technique (everyone kill 1.monster) in FK really excel.

Parsley wrote: I think it is fair.

You forbade your full round of attacks against a single enemy and instead you make a single attack against each enemy in the same room, it's meant to fight hordes of weak enemies rather than a few strong enemies.

I wanted to make a quick point as to how this wouldn't make perfect sense, at least to me.

Big boss man is coded as a warrior/fighter/whatever and has the hitall skill. If employed as stated above, this would allow the mob to hit every PC in the room... Including the wizard who's in the back rank of his group behind a massive wall of meat and shield.

I just wouldn't like to see another addition that would make group formations even less useful and sensible than they already are (if that's possible). A caster can definitely throw a fireball into the center of a group and do damage to everything around it, but I can't see a fighter being able at least in most cases to force himself through a supposed shield wall and then execute this type of whirlwind attack all in the same round.

The "Kill the same enemy" tactic is incredibly sound and useful when dealing with a group of equally powered enemies. It is something that all parties need to understand and utilize when they are fighting at equal to higher level than themselves. (Though, if you're fighting kobolds you should also do it. Just ask my last table-top party when they all yelled ooc: "Free for all." and played their group scattered in damage dealing. Shamans are mean.)

Whirlwind attack/Hitall has its merits in combat though. Tanks, for the most part, are not DPR designed and thus don't do the same damage the rest of the group does. Tanks are there to gain aggro and take the damage while dealing some damage back each round.

Whirlwind attack/Hitall is a vital skill to tanks because it allows them to use their attack to whittle down all the enemies in the room while the rest of the group focuses on hitting just the one. It's a rather incredible tactic during room defense, escort missions, and Hold-the-line type scenarios.

@dolifer -- What you say is true too, depending on the situation and the layout of the formation. Just because a formation snapshot says you're in the middle, that doesn't mean middle is too far from combat. Back usually is but also not always if your line is spread thin and the gaps aren't too wide. In FK this isn't really represented as much but it's good to consider when RPing the battle situation you're in.

I see little utility for this skill in Forgotten Kingdoms because it is unnecessary in the only situation in which it might be useful. i.e. if you can kill an enemy in one hit then you are in no hurry to do so

This is a garnish skill basically.

Harroghty wrote:This is a *garnish* skill basically.

I can't help myself, but >_> Parsley

Terageld wrote:

Harroghty wrote:This is a *garnish* skill basically.

I can't help myself, but >_> Parsley

So glad I wasn't the only one who read it that way...

>_>