Training

[Yemin]

Training Help
=============
In order to grow in power on Forgotten Kingdoms, you will have to know how to train.
Each and every character has a set list of skills and spells they can learn. Some classes get both skills and spells, while others get only skills. To see which skills your character can learn, use the SKILLS command. In the same fashion, SPELLS displays all the spells which can be learned. PRACTICE offers a complete list of everything that your character is capable of learning and improving upon.
In order to improve your skills and spells, you must find a trainer who can
train each particular skill and spell. Once you know something about a skill
or spell, simply using it will allow you to slowly improve even further.
You can also learn weapon skills and language skills. Type weapons and type languages.
On the same note, you must gain experience points in order to train skills
and spells once you have found a trainer. You can gain experience in several ways:
1. Killing mobs (mobiles--like practice dummies, or other assorted monsters).
2. Using skills, spells and trades that your character has learned.
3. Getting a bonus from an immortal for good roleplaying (please note,
immortals can also penalize you for bad roleplaying by taking experience points away)
4. Many quests around the kingdoms earn experience.
I wanted to ask mostly if suggestion 2 is still the case in the game and if simply using a spell will improve it. Or does the spell have to be successful. I'm asking specifically about spells since i've noticed both skills and weapons improve regardless of hit / miss.

I've gone through training a bunch of different stuff on different characters and i'm trying to justify for e.g., why it takes so much longer for me to train certain spells over another.

It seems to be that some spells require you to be successful in some capacity for it to be considered training, whereas others do not.

E.g. There was a large difference of effort and time in training chain lightning, and undeath to death where chain lightning generally took a really short time from inept to apprentice since I was using live targets... but i've known and been using undeath to death for about a month longer than chain and I've barely got it to apprentice now. Also noticing that the latter improved only when it actually killed something.

At first I thought It was just misremembering the uses since chain has more utility than undeath, as its a damage spell but looking back over logs looking for something else the number of IM run events where undead have been a theme + increasing number of undead areas / mobs + various other in game reasons that should be kept IC my wizard has actually cast undeath far more times than chain.

[Terageld]

Since Yemin started this thread about training, I'm hopping onto the bandwagon.
Anyone know how skills improve? Things like second to fifth attacks seem to go up just from fighting. I'm not sure how I improve at things like dodge and parry. Do I get better at those two skills when I use them in combat or just from fighting? Same goes for the dual wield skill. Do I get better at dual wield only when I hit a mob with my second weapon? Then there's the manual fighting skills like kick, disarm, and bash. I feel like it's a hassle to train those by repetitively kicking in combat.
Lastly, I seem to advance through the skills at a much slower pace than other characters. I've used the bastard sword for years now, but I've yet to get to master at double-edged blades. Then I watch characters like Miss Areia who just flew up to grandmaster status with the greatswords, even though she's a wizard. I feel… I dunno… a little jealous. Am I doing something wrong?

[Xryon]

It's my understanding that you gain skill 'exp' for both successes and failures. Failures just give a significantly lower number of points. Passive skills (weapons, dodge, parry, dual wield) tend to improve quite a bit faster, because as long as their parameters are met (two weapons wielded for dual wield) they're constantly gaining experience while you're fighting. Dodge is a bit hard to tell compared to the old code, because you're not actually dodging like you used to be. I suspect that it still operates similarly, but since dodge was changed it just activates less.

Parry is similar in that regard, which is why it seems to improve slowly. It goes up without you actively doing anything, but the conditions have to be met for it to activate, and I don't think that's visible anymore (don't believe failures ever were).

Active skills are definitely a pain to level, comparatively. Since you have to specify their use, it's going to take a lot longer.

Weapons have changed since I went through and GM'd most of them with Garumsh. I did notice that certain weapons took longer than others, which is probably intentional; more complex the weapon, longer it takes to master. I can't speak for your experience with bastard swords, but intelligence definitely plays a factor.

Can anyone attest to regular improves in double-edged with bastard swords since they became exotic weapons?

Edited to add: I missed the second part of your dual wield question. This should operate the same as mentioned above; you'll get skill experience whether you hit or not, hitting with it just grants a lot more.

[Dranso]

Can anyone attest to regular improves in double-edged with bastard swords since they became exotic weapons?

Yes, on my drow I have seen very regular improvements in double-edged blades with bastard swords as well as dual wield, dodge, the attacks, etc. However, he would probably see better gains since he is a drow with high intelligence were as most other warriors I have seen tend to lean towards low int.

[Xryon]

Much obliged, Dranso. I figured as much, but just wanted to make sure.

[Terageld]

I need Int? Wow... That explains a lot. Terageld has barbarian-level intelligence. Do you think a Fox's Cunning spell would make a big difference in the speed of skill training?

[Xryon]

I'd have to do some digging, but I feel like, in ages past, it was mentioned that base intelligence was the determinant, not temporary values such as those granted by spells. Someone please correct me if I'm misremembering.

[Terageld]

Aww... I don't wanna train an int stat... but I don't want to spend forever practicing skills either.
#FighterProblems

[Xryon]

Luckily, the majority of fighter's skills are passive. And, unless it's been changed, increase rates are much higher than they used to be. When I went on my quest to GM everything with Garumsh, the final tally was ~800 hours. Since then, I'm pretty sure dual wield, at the least, has been sped up.

[Sithiel]

With 10 int and I would say 200ish hours of Dual Wielding I have got it to Journeyman, so I would not take that it for granted that it has increased

[dolifer]

Then I watch characters like Miss Areia who just flew up to grandmaster status with the greatswords, even though she's a wizard.

Well... Wouldn't exactly call it "flew.." It took hundreds of hours of mindless slaughter to get that good, just as it did with the other weapons she's GM'd. But as Xryon mentioned, INT does make a big difference. Both my priest and low-INT fighter barely ever increase a skill/spell anymore, even at apprentice level, because their INT is so low. Areia, on the other hand, has nearly the intelligence of a demigod (lol slight exaggeration.. But only slight), so she learns much more quickly.

And.. I've tried using enhancement spells to speed that up in the past, but it seems to make little or no difference. I would guess it's based on the natural score.

I wanted to ask mostly if suggestion 2 is still the case in the game and if simply using a spell will improve it. Or does the spell have to be successful.

Speaking only from my experience here... I've never improved with a spell on failure (i.e., when you get the echo, "You failed."). Whether a spell improves on success or not might depend on your definition of "success," though. I have improved a couple times even when the spell is resisted or ineffective for some other reason. So, I feel like they don't improve only when you get the failure echo. Then again, it could just be a coincidence that I've never improved on failure. ^^

[Yemin]

Well, i'll keep trying to improve this spell then, but I feel like i'm being tricked into wasting my time..., Its not often that I feel the need to actually practice something since I like the skill system 80% of the time, you should be good at what you naturally use alot and bad at the things you barely use unless you make the effort to round yourself out.

This is especially true when certain spells are heavily dependant on skill like undeath to death seems to be...at apprentice level it can't even reliably kill most fighter-like NPC undead 30 levels lower than I am, and I think 5 to 10 levels lower than any character can learn the spell without heavy xp cost from learning at a lower level.

[Ungtar]

I don't know about that specific spell, bud, but I can say that I noticed an enormous difference in skill gains between a 10 int druid and a 16 int cleric.

[Yemin]

this is all on my max int wizard.

[Levine]

Then again, it could just be a coincidence that I've never improved on failure. ^^

Can confirm, just improved a skill on failure!

[Lirith]

You can improve on a failure, it's happened for me a bunch of times, although it is rarer than on a success simply because failures happen less so less chance to see the echo.

[Yemin]

Thanks

[Roderick]

You can improve on a failure, it's happened for me a bunch of times

That was exactly my theory on dating in college.

[Algon]

You can improve on a failure, it's happened for me a bunch of times

That was exactly my theory on dating in college.

Is that ever not the theory in regards to this? lol

[Dirhara]

I'm a super-noob, but given the topic of the thread, I have just seen this in game:

<88%hp 0m 89%mv>
You learn from your success and improve at long axes!
A kobold warrior ducks under your slashing attack.