Its a new world...a scary new world.

[Barrlum]

I am making this both as a frustration release and somewhat comedy as its only afterwards that you realize how comical your detriment was, and starting out with this game has been ludicrously interesting, I feel you need to see what I've been seeing for the last few days.

Day 1:Learning the tutorial and slowly trying to learn the areas within a few steps of the Dripping Dagger. Got lost in Waterdeep, never found way back until finally reaching out to a random player named Thurgan. Thurgan was very nice and helped me find my way back to the Dagger as well as give me a few pointers.

Day 2: Discovered ASK channel. Have not stopped ASKing since. Attempts to refrain from using ASK fail mid-day and give into ignorance, asking a myriad of questions answered by various players. Finally grasp High Road being a main road and expand into new sections of the city before unseen. Discover City of the Dead and first quest discovered on own. All attempts to find workers fail. Grave Keeper prime suspect. Plans to kill him tomorrow if no more information turns up.

Day 3: Figured out how to use "questjournal". Can now see all missed information from before and re-create priorities. Grave Keeper no longer suspect, trigger words importance discovered. Guide offers route to Rat Hill for a mere 1 silver...paid guide. Learned way to Rat Hill...at least first half. Paid guide twice more, now memorizing the way to Rat Hill. Begin cleansing of Rat Hill by removal of any and all rats I can see. Spend several hours just killing rats, well pleased with the experience I must have banked as my "level" command showed I was ready very quickly after I had started. Continue rat cleansing. Complete quest for Auntie, feeling rather pleased, and kill Kobold guard above in a ballsy exploratory move. Victoriously stroll through wooden sign and...begin battle with two cultists and a rat. Experience first death...........Next hour and half spent bare knuckle boxing Kobold door guard, fleeing when low, resting, and rising again to begin the bare knuckle naked boxing of the kobold. Eventually kill Kobold with fists. Regain axe and shield from corpse and begin long session of attack and retreats to regain one piece of equipment at a time. Realized after that corpse could have been taken right away and moved to safe place. Frustrated at time wasted being foolish. Notice experience lost at death, so return to kill rats for a while. Keep thinking of Kobolds and what they are hiding....return to assault Kobold Cultist Central. Made it to same room once more, but this time pinned down by too many dire rats and barely escape. Vow to be done with this area for day and return tomorrow. Return to town and continue exploring side streets and looking at vendors as well as saying trying to look for work.

Day 4: ......Return to Rat Hill......claim rat heads to fund training and vow to retain two levels before attempting to break into the kobolds area once more. Continue to wear whatever I find on the ground, still not really grasping armour here. Learn about the "compare" command, and now can begin having SOME kind of ideas as to what may or may not be better. Excitedly begin to compare everything and dress accordingly. Decked out in loin cloths, mismatched socks, broken buckle bracers, shoes with holes in them, and anything else left in this junk yard, I take the battle once more to the kobolds, this time pushing north....discover the Lizardmen. Diseased and weak, they strike fast but they do not hurt much and die quickly. Take this area as new training area. Spend next hour or two catching lizardmen and rats off guard and working my way back and forth. Return to normal resting place in lizardman area and recuperate. Normal fight, engaging another lizardman.....stop battling in the middle of combat? Only enemy is making attacks, not me? Begin to look around confused and notice...."right arm of Barrlum" as well as a very familiar battle axe laying on the ground. Incredulously try to pick up own arm, quickly realizing have no left arm either now and am unable to do anything but perhaps run? Attempt to flee. Begin strange walk of death while others keep trying to kill me, unarmed, literally. Spend next hour attempting to bare knuckle box past kobolds and rats before realizing that I have 5 platinum from ressurecting at the Dripping Dagger and being paid for a quest. Purchase new axe...return...with VENGEANCE! Kill all the kobolds on principle. Kill all lizardmen on principle. Reclaim gear, explore more, finding an area filled with spikes and eventually a horrible tentacle monster in the trash. Escape, but afraid to move. Eventually escape with aid of friend Thurgan. On departure, meet a new friend. This friend introduces me to two new friends...where I learn that "Steeleye" is not a name, but a title, sort of? Trail small group, learning from Harroghty and Rolant, eventually coming to rest at Berdusk. Discover caravan and begin wasting platinum on tokens. Plan to ride caravan to all types of different cities and see them. Purchased 6 tokens, used one for ride home. Have missed caravan OVER A DOZEN TIMES. CONVINCED CARAVAN DRIVER IS PULLING AWAY EACH TIME HE SEES ME. Will get his.....Discover Mount Waterdeep for first time and climb it. Attempt to fight Griffon. Attempt to flee. Neither successful. Ressurect and rescale mountain, this time finding more people in need of aid and more monsters. Enter Undermountain and take 6 steps. Experience first fight with any creature in Undermountain. Die quite rapidly. Return and retrieve corpse and escape back to Waterdeep where found good alley and slept rest of night off.

Day 5: Little blurred, but killed rats for a bit to receive level. Finally....FINALLY.....understand the importance of armour. Purchase 5 new pieces of fine mail armour using money saved and some given. QUALITY OF LIFE DRAMATICALLY IMPROVES. I can't stress this moment enough. Dear sweet mother of pearl. From wearing the Rat Hill Wardrobe Collection of 2016 to now feels like I was wearing ceramic coffee mugs for protection before. Now, enter sewers and level up slaying larger creatures. NOW hunt the wererat, and LIVE! NOW feeling a little more BA and much less scared. Return to Mountain. Fight Griffon....which refuses to fight back? Uh...abandoned fight out of concern for creature with no will to retaliate. Discover Dungsweeper Guild....begin collecting manure.


This has been a helluva week, but its been a lot of fun haha, and this is about where I've been at. Massive highlights: Learning about the Compare command and changing from pieces of trash found on ground to actual armour. Holy. Crap.

[Vaemar]

The changing from trash armour to fine mail really remembered of my first character I made in May when I found FK. I recall also several experiences like losing a limb and feeling lost in Waterdeep.

[Terageld]

Decked out in loin cloths, mismatched socks, broken buckle bracers, shoes with holes in them, and anything else left in this junk yard,

That's my Friday partying gear... >_> Ya raid my wardrobe?
I think my most miserable newbie experience was being in Rat Hill at night when my torch goes out. I didn't know about the "recall" ability and had to crawl out room by room.
Also had another experience when a vampire's drain dropped me 12 levels. I have had a phobia of vampires ever sense.

[Barrlum]

Decked out in loin cloths, mismatched socks, broken buckle bracers, shoes with holes in them, and anything else left in this junk yard,

That's my Friday partying gear... >_> Ya raid my wardrobe?
I think my most miserable newbie experience was being in Rat Hill at night when my torch goes out. I didn't know about the "recall" ability and had to crawl out room by room.
Also had another experience when a vampire's drain dropped me 12 levels. I have had a phobia of vampires ever sense.

.................Just learned how to use recall and what it is after I read your post.......where has this been for the last 5 days hahaha.

[Harroghty]

Thanks for writing this out. It's really beneficial as a builder/staff member to see what new players enjoy and what they wished they would've had.

What do you feel was the most effective way to learn?

Should a newbie area teach more or teach less?

(It's fair to note that while recall is an option it shouldn't be a go-to means of transportation!)

[Yemin]

My vampire experience wasn't as bad as some but it left me irl scarred I tell you. Tell you what though, it fixed vamps back into their well deserved scary monster place after reading twilight.

[Barrlum]

Thanks for writing this out. It's really beneficial as a builder/staff member to see what new players enjoy and what they wished they would've had.

What do you feel was the most effective way to learn?

Should a newbie area teach more or teach less?

(It's fair to note that while recall is an option it shouldn't be a go-to means of transportation!)

Honestly, I think Waterdeep is very well done as far as a newbie area goes for bringing people into the game. The most effective things I found were:

+ Random NPCs who were stationed around that would offer to take you to a place for a small fee, and then not only that but they actually gave you several directions WHILE heading to these places which totally helped to reaffirm and get the pattern down in my head.
+ The quest text on most of the early quests is pretty good about informing you about some of the details you need to watch for while also telling you, hey, I'm not gonna be giving you these tips forever, so if OOC is saying something, pay some damn attention.
+ The ASK channel is extremely helpful and an easy way to ask questions. It does make me feel a little spammy, but it is very helpful.
+ RECALL?!?! Seriously, I know what you mean but you don't want it to be used for something as mundane as just moving locations, and thats totally understandable, but I wish wish wish I would have seen this command sooner for at least a couple occasions hah. Excellent ability though for newer players at low levels.

The only two things that I found to be a major nuisance were:

#1 The Amulet of Communication. I like the idea that you have an amulet that you can take on and off to make sense of IC communication over long distances beyond just saying "I'm a wizard", I really really like it in fact, and the fact that it glows when someone uses it showing me that they are communicating is even cooler, especially that I've seen some people with renamed ones. HOWEVER. Death at the levels pre 10 already seems pretty brutal. Obviously there are everyone elses stories if they recall being a low level or this right now, of losing a body deep and not knowing about the recall command ect. I think that it would help a lot if you let people that are below level 10 or even just level 5 communicate via tells without the amulet on. There were many many times where I wished I could reach out to some of the people I had already spoken with once or twice rather than spam the ASK channel or pray and hope I was doing it right. The ASK thing is really nice, but after using it a lot sometimes it can feel like you are being burdensome or annoying. There are at least 4 or 5 times that I could have saved myself a lot of frustration if I could have talked with someone OOC via tells but didn't feel they were things to be posted in the ASK channel.

#2 Death pre-level 5. Another one of those small niche issues really, as I truly do like the significance of death in this game over what I've been used too, especially when something happens like getting my arm cut off and both it and the weapon I WAS holding falling to the ground. I had a friend sitting on the couch next to me who used to play muds who was playing something on console at the time and I looked up and said "dude, I just got my f*****g arm cut off." and then we both watched the next 45 seconds of slow death and trying to pick up one arm and my axe with the other. It was great, good times, genuinely had a great laugh about it. However, afterwards, getting my body back was an altogether new story. As someone below level 5, obviously I have almost no money to buy any gear, so whats on my body and what I started with after the tutorial was pretty important to me. At least before level 5 I would like to offer a few ideas, I think it would be fairly helpful if either A. my body just automatically went to that crypt place ONLY until level 5 or something very low as well as having an NPC that offers to lead you to the Corpse Conservatory FROM the Dripping Dagger or somewhere nearby. Alternatively, if this was a route that you found problematic I think another potential solve would be to have a shrine or something that a new player BELOW level 5 can worship at or something that would give a few replacement pieces that you picked up from the tutorial area right before, most significantly a weapon and perhaps some pants and a shirt and some shoes. I understand part of the reason that it is difficult to retain your corpse is to encourage more cooperation amongst the community, and while I really like the way it has worked since I've met more people, it can be very intimidating to be a low level and new on a game like a MUD. You don't want to burn people out asking for help or questions too much, but at the same time you want to learn and be able to progress to a point you CAN take care of yourself.

Again, I want to reiterate though that I have really enjoyed the early levels and the trials have all been very par for the way things appear to be set up. I will say that I feel like a major idiot re-reading the help file on "Adjective" as it says in very bold red lettering that you do NOT get to redo it and it is permanent and its def something I mucked up That was entirely my mistake on not being careful and just getting tired eyes. I've thoroughly enjoyed getting as far as I am now and I'm only 8 without having left Waterdeep too much. I'm looking forward to making that move pretty soon, other than when leaving in a large group escort heh.

I think its good to get a lot of the teaching out of the way in those first 10 levels. Waterdeep really feels like a good little controlled environment that you experience a lot in, especially if you are in the City of the Dead at night time. Theres aggressive areas as well as passive areas to train in and theres also a good amount of quests involving having to think about it a bit or at least puzzle solve to an extent. Players hang out there (which I actually just really found out today, I've never really ran into anyone in Waterdeep much before today) so you can start meeting people pretty quick too. Idk, I look forward to trying out the other starting areas if there is ones for the other races.

[Beskytter]

It sounds like it might make it worthwhile to have Filiare toss some basic clothes on newly deads, and direct them to the Market Square to seek help. Since most of the game congregates there it should provide new players the chance to meet older players and give them a little aid retrieving a corpse.

Many of your experiences are shared with other new players of late and I've started to see a common theme, so if this doesn't fit you then I'm sorry to lop you into the same group. A chunk of the brand new to FK players any one of my characters has run into have had little background experience with d&d and thus with the number crunch that goes on with your score sheet.

You mentioned armor not being made known as incredibly important to start and that's likely because most of the time those that seek out this style of game already know that high AC numbers are required to survive. So, do you think we should have an ooc explanation of these mechanics somewhere within the starting area(s)?

[Harroghty]

What about moving the Corpse Conservatory to Selduth Street? That little area of the city already has weapon shops, training, a bank, several inns, stables, etc.

[Aishe]

I love seeing the game with fresh eyes again through these posts. FK was my first mud, and I only started about eight months ago. The learning curve is steep, but it has been so worth it!

I love the idea of having a corpse conservatory on Selduth. I didn't even know such a thing existed for many weeks into learning to play, and when I did hear about it, could never find it. Not sure if having corpses under level five in Waterdeep pop in automatically would be a good thing, as it is not how it will happen the rest of the game, and I think it might even build up a false sense of security that will become harsh reality at level six.

Also, market square as a meeting point is never mentioned anywhere in Selduth street, to my recollection. As it is such an integral part of learning things from other players and finding people to help collect your corpse, I would love to see something that directs players there.

Edit: The Ask channel. It's a lifesaver, but never knew it existed until 'ask'ing an npc about a quest in an effort to get him to give me information. I was pleasantly surprised if terribly embarrassed to discover a live person there to help.

[Barrlum]

It sounds like it might make it worthwhile to have Filiare toss some basic clothes on newly deads, and direct them to the Market Square to seek help. Since most of the game congregates there it should provide new players the chance to meet older players and give them a little aid retrieving a corpse.

Many of your experiences are shared with other new players of late and I've started to see a common theme, so if this doesn't fit you then I'm sorry to lop you into the same group. A chunk of the brand new to FK players any one of my characters has run into have had little background experience with d&d and thus with the number crunch that goes on with your score sheet.

You mentioned armor not being made known as incredibly important to start and that's likely because most of the time those that seek out this style of game already know that high AC numbers are required to survive. So, do you think we should have an ooc explanation of these mechanics somewhere within the starting area(s)?

I really like the idea of Filiare giving some new clothes if I were dead, the biggest thing was at least having a weapon back to be able to retrieve my corpse. Taking some damage and resting is understandable, but being unable to get to it because of the sheer amount of fists I have to throw was a bit of an issue.

As for AC, I've played a small amount of DnD and I vaguely remember how AC worked from Baldur's Gate (PC game), but even now I am still a bit confused on it and what my armor is actually adding to me. Currently, I'm playing a guessing game of "well that looks better than a loin cloth" and comparing after I buy it. If you are a truly NEW player arriving here, theres a chance you are coming from a MUD like the one I was on forever where equipment is more about "How does it improve my stats immediately?" vs "How does it protect me?". Here, I look at my armor as "Is this going to stop something from killing me?" I really really like the way armor is here, but I think it would help a lot if there was some more information on it. I love moving away from a stat grind game, I can't tell you the relief about getting beyond min-maxing race choices to build the ultimate battle mages/con fighter/everyothercookiecutterpeoplemake. Obviously stats are still important here, but it seems a lot more RP involved too, I like the way stats are done here, and I like the improving of myself directly through use of skills more. TLDR: Yeah, I think a little OOC talk about armor and its importance would go a long way, maybe even have a monster hit you during the tutorial without armor and then have you put armor on and get hit again and illustrate the damage difference armor can make. Not sure on a fix, but I think a little more OOC info would help here.

The number crunch for score sheet thing is pretty on par. I have the bonus of just recently been taught actual D&D, so when I saw the stat modifiers I had somewhat of a clue. From a fresh player side though, its not greatly discussed beyond knowing that I will need certain stats higher for specific things, i.e. Charisma if I wanted to be a Paladin and I assume Wisdom and Intelligence if I were a wizard (SO pumped to try out a pure spellcaster in this game, but so far off from ready to do that hah), but the help file for this particular thing is actually fairly helpful, especially when you sit and read it all hah. So I grasp how my stats and modifiers work to an extent, but things like the saving throws, fort, some of the extras I still have very little clue what I'm doing with. I'll look when I get back on a little later, but is there a help file that talks about the saving throws and what exactly each one is applied to? Like when a Fort save happens vs a...Con save? Not sure, I'll have to look later to really have an answer.

I love seeing the game with fresh eyes again through these posts. FK was my first mud, and I only started about eight months ago. The learning curve is steep, but it has been so worth it!

I love the idea of having a corpse conservatory on Selduth. I didn't even know such a thing existed for many weeks into learning to play, and when I did hear about it, could never find it. Not sure if having corpses under level five in Waterdeep pop in automatically would be a good thing, as it is not how it will happen the rest of the game, and I think it might even build up a false sense of security that will become harsh reality at level six.

Also, market square as a meeting point is never mentioned anywhere in Selduth street, to my recollection. As it is such an integral part of learning things from other players and finding people to help collect your corpse, I would love to see something that directs players there.

Edit: The Ask channel. It's a lifesaver, but never knew it existed until 'ask'ing an npc about a quest in an effort to get him to give me information. I was pleasantly surprised if terribly embarrassed to discover a live person there to help.

I agree that it could breed that false sense of security if it was happening every time. Maybe if it only happened the first once or twice that you died it came back to the Dagger with you? Not sure, but just keeping my equipment or even like the BASIC tutorial stock equipment through my very first death could help a bit and make that first death a lot less terrifying and intimidating. Death SHOULD be scary, for sure, I don't want to change that, I just know that that first death is a real hurdle. It was one of the few times early on I asked myself "am I really going to try to learn a whole new MUD or am I just grasping at nostalgia?" Obviously, I made the decision to continue playing, but I understand the real struggle with learning an entirely new set of controls in an unfamiliar environment. It can be extremely frustrating, and while you might think "well if they aren't willing to push through that first hump then they likely aren't going to play anyways", but I tell you truly that there are many many players out there that if you can get them past that first early level hump of Training Day, they will stay and really play once they can start to really appreciate the game for what it is and be less concerned about absorbing tons of new information. This is the 4th or 5th time I've tried to make a character and play FK. I was vastly intimidated each time before and couldn't push myself past that hump of unfamiliarity and out of my comfort zone, but after finally getting past that, you have a game that is ludicrously interesting and still has a very active player base which is rare amongst MUDs, I really really am excited to be here and I'm sure there are many others in the same boat.

[Barrlum]

What about moving the Corpse Conservatory to Selduth Street? That little area of the city already has weapon shops, training, a bank, several inns, stables, etc.

I can safely say that Selduth streets is one of those ones I used a lot or at least remember seeing a ton of. The Corpse Conservatory was a little hard for me to find until someone told me it was near the market, then it was impossible to find because it turned out I had the map in my head turned upside down(this is why I'm always lost lol), but after THAT was fixed, I was able to find it, but it took me a good time and even now, I couldn't tell you exactly where it is but I could wander to it eventually given about 6 minutes. I think a locale closer to the Dripping Dagger would be more beneficial for the purpose it seems available for. I know that really ANYONES corpse could be there (I think), but its more than likely going to be low levels using it more often than not, could totally be wrong though.

Other somewhat off topic but very useful thing was the location of some of the NPCs who are there to help. I.E. Loic, who takes you to Rat Hill. Its taken me a few days and I used to never be able to find my way back to the Dripping Dagger, but I can ALWAYS find Loic. Loic is an easy marker for "hey the Dripping Dagger is just down this road". Not only him, but the signs all over town have been really helpful too. Its exceptionally helpful when I'm wandering around trying to figure out where I am and I see a bold white text in a room that says a sign is there and then that tells me which way the Market is and which way the Dripping Dagger is. I found these signs to be very helpful throughout the learning of Waterdeep streets.

[Althasizor]

Currently, I'm playing a guessing game of "well that looks better than a loin cloth" and comparing after I buy it.

You can actually examine items sold by shopkeeper before purchasing them! Say an innkeeper was selling a silver chestplate, you could type "examine chestplate innkeeper". If they happen to be selling more than one chestplate, "examine 'silver chestplate' innkeeper" works to get more descriptive.

The 'help armour type' and 'help armour class' files, as well as the related helpfiles they link to should be of some help in discerning what each armour piece is doing for you.

[Barrlum]

Currently, I'm playing a guessing game of "well that looks better than a loin cloth" and comparing after I buy it.

You can actually examine items sold by shopkeeper before purchasing them! Say an innkeeper was selling a silver chestplate, you could type "examine chestplate innkeeper". If they happen to be selling more than one chestplate, "examine 'silver chestplate' innkeeper" works to get more descriptive.

The 'help armour type' and 'help armour class' files, as well as the related helpfiles they link to should be of some help in discerning what each armour piece is doing for you.

I love you your the greatest. I'm so happy to know of this command thank you!

Recent update: I feel like my tracks are starting to spin in the mud lately. Its clear through trial and error, even against the IC and OOC better advise of other players, that I have given up on taking on the mountain alone, and that was a really good push to kind of understand the necessity of grouping to go to certain areas. The warnings in game are VERY clear, I just thought I could perhaps play smarter and still be ok, I was wrong hah. I've got a few quests that are just turning them in around Waterdeep, like finding the ghost lady again and just wrapping up the last part of a couple things, but I'm starting to kinda get that weird fear-not-fear of like...well Waterdeep taught me a lot, but now...whats OUTSIDE Waterdeep? So I've made a few forays down roads and back, even discovered one of the other towns via walking distance along the Long Road to the North. My main plan has been to catch Deekin's caravan to Silverymoon or one of the other cities and kinda explore a new city, go one city at a time. The only reason THAT plan hasn't taken off yet is that I've missed the caravan. Every. Single. Time. Sometimes I stand around waiting in the area and then find something to do IRL and end up being afk too long and I miss it. Other times I see the time and hear it pull into Waterdeep and I just take too long trying to navigate my way to the caravans. Damn that Deekin. Going to remain convinced IC that he's dodging me, but thats neither here nor there. I know that part of the problem is purely the fact that I'm not quite sure what to ask for help on at this point or where to go to. I'm trying to RP and go with adventuring groups when I can, but I feel like I've reached the end of the true tutorial and now its time to walk on my own two feet, which is legitimate and I DO feel I have all the tools to go out and start exploring, I just know now that death matters a lot more and things feel a bit less...directed? Like not in a bad way, in a way thats like "hey, the story is yours to choose how it unfolds, how do you want to do it?" I really like that, I'm just super unsure of where to pick myself up from and head to. And please don't take this is a cry for "someone come and ferry me away!", just articulating a wall that I feel like I'm kicking at.

[Aishe]

Hehehe, don't worry, there is plenty to do next. Try heading out on to the roads! Just keep an eye out on the road ahead to dodge the bandits, if you can't take 'em on yet. Maybe head over to Cormyr or Westgate for some shopping! Maybe find someone in market square to travel the world with! It will be worth it! Nothing beats traveling!

[Aishe]

Oh, and stuff like this!
viewtopic.php?f=72&t=20714

[Barrlum]

Oh, and stuff like this!
viewtopic.php?f=72&t=20714

Thanks for the tips and jawesome! I'm looking forward to getting into some of the events and such

Finally got into the exclusive club known as Deekin's Caravan and have been exploring a bit and travelling the roads. I can handle the bandits solo with rest here and there! Thanks again!

[Danik]

http://www.pocketplane.net/volothamp/im ... nlarge.jpg
This map helped me feel more comfortable with where things generally are once I set out from Waterdeep. It also helped to get dragged along with groups to far away cities and then have to find my way back on my own.

[Rhangalas]

Reminds me of when I first discovered polymorph, but didn't know about the 'return' command. I spent a couple of days as a bird encumbered by 50+ pounds of equipment and learned that spell duration is not affected while the character is offline.

[Harroghty]

There's now an annex of the Corpse Conservatory across from the Snookery on Selduth Street. Further, Loic will remind young PCs if they have a corpse in storage or not.