Forgotten Kingdoms Forums

You prepare to bash ...
You slam into a goblin soldier bashing them to the ground.
a goblin soldier is bleeding freely.
Your collision with a goblin soldier leaves him stunned!
A full-grown wolf's bite drills in to a goblin soldier's chest.
You score a critical hit!
Your punch nearly removes a goblin soldier's abdomen.
a goblin soldier is leaking heart-blood.
A full-grown wolf's bite drills in to a goblin soldier's chest.
You prepare to bash ...
They are too wary of that move.

With the current iteration of disarm, you are able to use the skill an unlimited number of times on any one single enemy so long as they have a weapon in their hands. I've never been too keen on that but my recent experience with the bash skill opened up a new line of thought.

- Have regular disarm be able to used (successfully?) once or twice by the player before a target becomes 'too wary of that move'. In my experience, a successfully bashed target will remain too wary for the remainder of the encounter. I think a time limit of 3-5 minutes would ensure very limited abuse on NPCs and allow PC's, say in a tournament, adequate time to be healed and readied up again.

- Improved disarm would grant the +4 to roll, no provoking an attack of opportunity and enables the PC an (1) additional successfully disarm attempt against any one target. The total possible successful disarms after taking this feat would be 2-3. I'm unsure whether or not this is a good target range and is totally subject to change and discussion.

- Greater improved disarm would not grant any additional bonuses to a disarm roll but would enable the PC another successful disarm. Totaling 3-4 disarms in one encounter against a single target. This could also be the location of the +4 to disarm roll and allowing improved disarm no AoO with 2 additional attacks.

Quite frankly, disarm is and should be a cornerstone of the fighter class on FK, but the skill is easily twinked and subject to abuse in PvP. The current iteration could use some curbing and that's what this post is seeking out in way of discussion. Thanks for your time!

Aunala wrote:...the skill is easily twinked and subject to abuse in PvP...

I am not sure that I agree with this part. Disarm is pretty difficult to train, even if one trains that skill specifically (...by getting beat up by monsters in order to spam that command).

I believe that it is used often in PvP for a few reasons:

• any combat maneuver, if unsuccessful, results in unanswered attacks (potentially devastating in PvP especially) and this one succeeds more often than some others
• it is a combat skill for which other warrior guilds don't have a specific defense (because they don't have grip)
• other combat maneuvers are less likely to be useful:
  • bash has been limited in its uses and its success rate is low
  • kick and punch don't give the edge that they once did under the new combat system

In short, I don't believe that this is abused. One might say it's been used more often recently (for the above reasons) but I fail to see any huge advantage derived from that use. It can be a differentiation in a tournament or PvP between fighters, but everyone in that case has equal opportunity to learn it; other classes have things like heal, power word kill, etc. that balance this out pretty well.

I don't see any need to change disarm as it stands; at best disarm gains you a 1-round advantage and at worst, loses you one for the risk. Personally, I think quickdraw should be fixed before any balance tuning is required on disarm.

Disarm is pretty easily foiled if you're prepared for it. If you're a fighter and your grip skill isn't up to par to avoiding it more often than not then it is a similar situation to any classed character who has practiced a skill or spell more than another and so is reaping the reward of it. It completely nullifies your attacks for the round so against NPCs you will technically never kill it if you disarm round by round and one could say that a fighter who is disarming an NPC while his group mates pound it into the dirt is utalizing one of the best strategies to take as little damage as possible.

i wanted to add however, I never understood why bash here stuns an opponent. did it ever do that in dnd? I remember a feat train utilizing bash for battlefield control by moving enemies around the area or bashing them into an occupied square like a wall so they fall prone, all the while doing offhand weapon levels of damage with two weapon fighting with improved damage die if you spike your shield.

The stun affect seems pretty overpowered hence I suspect the skill overall was reduced in success rate, etc.

i'd vote for a change of bash from stun to moves opponent in chosen direction and makes them fall prone for say 12 - 18 seconds, gives the fighter a maneuver that let's him fight opponents one at a time by having a weak immobilisation effect on the mobile or pc moved.

I can attest to the damage saving effects of fighting one mob at a time.

Bash gives you an effect similar to your character being prone. Meaning you take a significant amount of your movement points to stand up again. Being stunned is probably as close to this as could be without changing hard code.

hrm., Couldn'it instead impose a modified irresistable dance? prone is -4 to attack rolls, -4 Ac against melee. That's a far cry from stun.