Forgotten Kingdoms Forums

Please, please, please enable second to fifth attack when you're wielding absolutely nothing. Enabling dual wield might be good too, but that could be better as a feat. My reasoning for this is that Power Attack works with no cestus, while cestuses are light weapons and thus cannot be used with said feat, which, if you have Power Attack, makes them pointless until you have third-fourth attack, as Power Attack punches appear to do a lot more damage than two (non-masterwork) cestus strikes per round.

Logically, someone who trains in brawling specifically should be able to make multiple punches per round if they're fast and skilled enough.

Edit: Additionally, it should balance plain unarmed to be as good as wielding dual cestuses later on. Right now, it's an early thing to do at best.

It's been braught up in a few past discussions and is, if I'm not mistaken, one of the things that are either being considered or worked on by coders. It'll be a hard code change and a low-priority one, at that, and so likely won't be implemented for some time.

This is my own observation, though. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Currently brawling is not the way to go if you're using it for much more than strictly RP purposes. e.g., my monk uses unarmed strikes and cesti regularly, but she's never going to be able to stand up against any other similar-level PC or even most mobs in a fight that way.

Yeah, which makes my character's build kinda' blegh. Taking feats in brawling and then branching out seems like a bad idea and though it's early enough to do so, I don't really want to. I'd have to take some interesting exotic weapon up or something and feats are nonrefundable as far as I know.

most one handed weapons do 1D*+8 damage with power attack. If you trained your str up to 20 got a pair of strength enhancing items to make it 22, then a magical set of brawl-wear thats 1D*+7, Get some flaming ones and thats 2D*+7... *shrugs* the availability of such items not considered of course.

Heck, without power attack thats a +3 to your hit roll

Yemin wrote:most one handed weapons do 1D*+8 damage with power attack. If you trained your str up to 20 got a pair of strength enhancing items to make it 22, then a magical set of brawl-wear thats 1D*+7, Get some flaming ones and thats 2D*+7... *shrugs* the availability of such items not considered of course.

Heck, without power attack thats a +3 to your hit roll

The issue is getting there without an actual weapon.

The issue is also the rarity of cesti in general. I found some, but they're nonmasterwork and thus 1d4. That's like wielding a dagger.

Also, I did say Power Attack doesn't work with cesti. Fists, yes. Cesti? No.

Rycird wrote: The issue is also the rarity of cesti in general. I found some, but they're nonmasterwork and thus 1d4. That's like wielding a dagger.

Just to clarify, masterwork and even magical cesti will do a d4 damage, also. Masterwork only adds a +1 to the weapons hitroll.

I'm personally fine with playing this sort of build with the understanding that code doesn't exactly support it. I might not be able to go out and solo most places my level, but the RP is different and enjoyable for me. The RP is what it's all about, for these sorts of builds, I think.

Areia wrote:I'm personally fine with playing this sort of build with the understanding that code doesn't exactly support it. I might not be able to go out and solo most places my level, but the RP is different and enjoyable for me. The RP is what it's all about, for these sorts of builds, I think.

I would be fine with it, too, if I could actually RP it as viable and have it be such. I love martial arts RP, but it's not that great in-game due to a lack of support.

Being noncompetitive as a Fighter is a terrible feeling.

Besky currently dual-wields cesti and doesn't seem to do that badly against hill giants or the drow from Holyhead. Even with them not being masterwork or magical and without improved brawling.
I agree that unarmed strikes should be brought up to all five attacks but perhaps there's an interim fix that could be pushed live by adding a feat for unarmed strikes? Make it add a bonus to damage and hit rolls and if possible make it remove the AoO involved with unarmed striking so you don't need to fight defensively and lose out on the bonus toHit?

Beskytter wrote:Besky currently dual-wields cesti and doesn't seem to do that badly against hill giants or the drow from Holyhead. Even with them not being masterwork or magical and without improved brawling.
I agree that unarmed strikes should be brought up to all five attacks but perhaps there's an interim fix that could be pushed live by adding a feat for unarmed strikes? Make it add a bonus to damage and hit rolls and if possible make it remove the AoO involved with unarmed striking so you don't need to fight defensively and lose out on the bonus toHit?

Personally, I think Improved Brawling should just have the additional attacks tacked onto it, making it that much better and allowing viability in unarmed melee so as long as you're willing to buy the feat.

Slight edit: Improved Brawling is a feat in-game, however all it does is remove the attacks of opportunity on you when fighting totally unarmed.

There is no fighter build you can do from level 1 unless your going for sword and board. its simply the nature of starting out a new character that you have to build to what you want. Granted, some things are much harder to do than others but unless what your playing falls into a supported starting kit. you won't see it normally for about 20 or 30 levels in.

As for unarmed strikes, 3.5 maintains a feat especially for avoiding AOO which is improved brawling here so that all fits. if people want to play brawlers, It would be easier to add magical brawl-wear to the RMI drops than anything else I can think off.

Yemin wrote: As for unarmed strikes, 3.5 maintains a feat especially for avoiding AOO which is improved brawling here so that all fits. if people want to play brawlers, It would be easier to add magical brawl-wear to the RMI drops than anything else I can think off.

...Personally, I think editing a single feat to allow multiple attacks while totally unarmed would be easier to code in than an entire list of new weapons.

As far as I know in tabletop you do your number of attacks even if unarmed and without improved brawling. You simply suffer an attack of opportunity against opponents with weapons. Improved brawling removes this attack of opportunity.

Vaemar wrote:As far as I know in tabletop you do your number of attacks even if unarmed and without improved brawling. You simply suffer an attack of opportunity against opponents with weapons. Improved brawling removes this attack of opportunity.

Yep. Plus, putting in an entire new set of weapons isn't just "copy and paste data" here, I'd imagine. You do have to do research on the various brawling weapons of real life and common fantasy sources to make it decent at all especially since we have multiple damage types, which should be harder than making a variable that enables multiple consecutive punches while unarmed once checked.

Edit: Spiked knuckles (piercing/blunt), punch daggers (piercing), normal knuckles (blunt), handwraps (blunt), katars (slashing/piercing), claws (slashing/piercing).

I'll wait for confirmation from a staff member but adding a new weapon type to a random generator doesnt' sound as much work as coding a feat to do something that essentially would solve the original request of making natural attacks take second - fith attacks into account. If they have reached the time where they want to do that they may as well do the original fix.

I will note however, I thought this idea was specifically talking about brawling in the very narrow minded street fighting sense of the word. I associate some of those listed weapons with monks or eastern fighters which is a weapon group that isn't common in the game.

i would like to see them regardless.

I'd really like to seem some rmi cesti in game. I don't know if they're already in the list but they could really popularize brawling.

Gwain wrote:I'd really like to seem some rmi cesti in game. I don't know if they're already in the list but they could really popularize brawling.

I just wanted to echo this statement.