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I don't know that shapechange is still in the game or not for druids, but as transforming into animals is a big thing in their world, it is a problem that polymorph is a top tier spell.

If it were lower then you could extend its duration or empower it or possibly use some metamagic feats on it. At the top end you can't do anything with it at all.

I'd love to see it at third level and be a viable option for the persistent spell feat (spend all day in animal form? Yes please!) but any lower level would at least give us the ability to extend it.

I havn't been faithed yet on my druid to be so I am not sure about the shapechange skill, though I assume it is still in game. However, if it is indeed removed, then I would fully support allowing polymorph at a lower lvl. Even if shape change is in the game, I don't really see the logic behind why polymorph is such a high lvl spell for druids. If anyone can explain that, would love to hear why.

Maybe because it supports a whole host of forms that druids weren't really ever meant to be able to possess? That's purely a guess, though. I know polymorph was deamed way overpowered a while back, so maybe that has something else to do with it.

But if shapechange isn't in game, I'd support lowering polymorph's druid level dramatically, and maybe adding some guideline about druids should keep only to the animal forms that the spell offers.

Shapechange is currently in game and is a skill that can be learned for our Druids. It is something I find quite crucial to their play. This post might offer more insight on that topic, viewtopic.php?f=77&t=15552&p=99989&hili ... nge#p99989.

So four years ago you said it sucked.

Does it still suck? And does it still REALLY exist (available from a trainer)? Or do you, as an old player, have it?

Ah, thank you, Nearra!

With that in mind, I'd say leaving polymorph at 9th level for druids is alright, as it probably shouldn't be the main means of changing form for them. I'm actually trying to figure out why they have it at all, now. Maybe in an attempt to help ease the problems noted in the thread Nearra mentioned?) But in any case, I'm glad to see the shapechange is in game.

Whether it actually works well enough to be a viable option for druids' RP and combat is obviously another issue, though.

One thing to consider is that there was a huge issue with players abusing the shapes the code allowed to solo areas and pvp combat situations when the previous forms of polymorph and shape change existed. One of the problems being that creatures are now hard coded to racial types with abilities. This coupled with certain types of play resulted in things like players using these abilities to solo unsoloable areas and ruin the game in certain aspects.

The result was that the code was under review and the spells were nerfed. From what I read from the previous forum thread was that it was under review and a solution was being looked into.

My suggestion would be to use hard code and soft code to create a template of weaker generic or pre 2007 code mob races to turn into that lack the coded benefits of the current mobile types. This way casters and druids get the ability to turn into creatures for long periods of time and enjoy small perks of being those creatures without having the ability to dominate the gameworld.

Also I am all for keeping it a ninth level spell, just because it seems like something only a powerful druid could manage. I'd call it one of their most awesome abilities.

Ungtar wrote: Does it still suck? And does it still REALLY exist (available from a trainer)? Or do you, as an old player, have it?

It does absolutely still exist as being able to train. As far as I am aware however, it has not been adjusted since. In the posting here so far though, I'm inclined to agree with Areia's & Gwain's statements & suggestions.

Eh I'd nerf down there animal forms but not a whole heck of a lot. It is supposed to be powerful, but as they said it's something only high ranking druids and even selunites could manage. (being shapechange and polymorph) But yes they do need some nerfing but not alot since you are giving up being able to cast any spells in exchange for the form you are currently in. Unless one of the forms still lets you cast like the simian forms? I know you can wield weapons as that sort of form, but not cast. Some of the issue in why is it's overpowered is because how natural attacks I.E. claws/bite/thrash/etc.. are very..very powerful. I believe when you shapechange into an animal or other creature you retain your player level as that type of creature is why it's op'd. If we could work out a way for the creatures to retain there attributes ie attacks etc.. without them being super heavy hitting that would probably remedy the situation.