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I was thinking about penalties for Underdark races who wander the surface.

I am not thinking about penalties to make life up there impossible for them, but mostly to something that would make them feel out of place up there, and hence make their journeys there more difficult and at the same time stimulating and enjoyable.

I was reading a while ago demihuman deities and I read how the priestesses of Eilistraee lost their spell resistance by living for prolonged time on the surface.

I was thinking then of a reversible system of adaptation, like after 10 uninterrupted real life hours on the surface these races get the following modifications:
-spell resistance: it goes away, it returns only if they go back to spend time in the Underdark or anyway, away from the open sky.
-vision: it would be nice for them to have a reduced vision before the 10 hours, that is about 4 rooms on the world map, as they have in the Underdark. Only by staying topside more hours they can achieve a better vision.
-penalties under daylight, maybe with a review of daylight adaptation, see the other thread for this in more detail.

I don't know, this is more brainstorming about an idea I got the other day and what I read on lorebooks.

I am curious to hear opinions on the matter.

Isn't all this stuff you can rp and smote? Taking into account the affects of not having daylight adaptation could be rp'd even though you need to have it by code to go to the surface, you can rp that you begin to feel the affects wearing thin.

Gwain wrote:Isn't all this stuff you can rp and smote? Taking into account the affects of not having daylight adaptation could be rp'd even though you need to have it by code to go to the surface, you can rp that you begin to feel the affects wearing thin.

I do, personally, when I have my chars topside, i.e. rarely, but mechanics are nice, especially if they are lore based, and help the rp, like the thought about spell resistance.

Concerning daylight adaptation I think it should actually be the opposite, the more you stay on the surface, the less your eyes are troubled by it. This is how it was managed in previous edition than 3.X, and also how it works in real life for people who have been for prolonged time in the darkness.

Are you offering to code the mechanics for this though? My goal is to present a solution that can be accomplished immediately. If you know the afflictions required why not play at being affected by them?

Gwain wrote:Are you offering to code the mechanics for this though?

No, I am struggling to code exits for rooms at present.

If you know the afflictions required why not play at being affected by them?

How can I play at having spell resistance or not? I either have it or not, mechanically, there is little one can do for it. I could lower it in theory, but the lowering lasts like three seconds, not something feasible in the long time.

On top of that there is no immediate need for a proposal like this, which, as stated, more an idea to hear others' opinions and brainstorm a little on the topic.

Not a huge fan. I can't even think of an easy way to code it unless Mask has a bunch of unused variables attached to each character structure. The only way I can think of to do it is to have a ticker on each Underdark race that counts up when they spend time in an outdoor room and counts down when they are in the UD. If ticker value => X then apply penalty.

There are only so many entrances and exits from UD to surface and back. Apply a condition that checks for race of PC entering the room and imposes a timed condition on them that is removed when they enter from the other direction going down.

This includes the shadow runner or whatever that ship is called.

Yemin wrote:There are only so many entrances and exits from UD to surface and back. Apply a condition that checks for race of PC entering the room and imposes a timed condition on them that is removed when they enter from the other direction going down.

This includes the shadow runner or whatever that ship is called.

What happens if I use word of recall or favor? Or if I log off topside for a few hours?

OR if I go sit in a cave somewhere for the next 3 days? That's not the UD but it's not the surface either.

The whole idea just seems punitive.

Even caves on the surface for the most part are lighter than those of the true underdark as far as I've read. Drow can burn their eyes when they light a single candle.

Granted the candle thing was probably just to make people laugh in an R.A salvatore book, but unfortunately or fortunately it's canon now that he's writtenit.

I'm not really for or against this. it's simply a feature i find interesting enough to give viable ideas. I think Word of recall is about the only way to teleport in the underdark and could have a measure for it as well.

Hopefully I'm right in saying the methods of entering / leaving the underdark are so few that each could be tackled in turn for this idea.

Also, I believe the point of the thread is for these measures to be punative. Generally, a system on the mud will do it's best to not overgeneralize but I think this is acceptable. If A UD homie pops up to the surface their not going to hang out in a cave for 10 hours. Said cave they do hang out in is likely going to be close to the entrance and they will either move on, or stay for a short time before returning.

Yemin wrote:Also, I believe the point of the thread is for these measures to be punative.

The whole idea was for measures not to be punitive, for once (!), but to be encouraging toward a better rp of the situation, without getting into ooc troubles and considerations, but managing it with a possibly simple and lore-friendly way. What I mentioned comes in fact from stuff I read in 2nd edition sourcebooks.

I personally like the idea of a timer that checks how long one has been in an open room, the ones where you can see the sky, precisely.

The big issue I see right off with this as a concept is that this isn't tabletop. You haven't sat down with a group of friends and agreed to play certain characters.

If you want interaction then you have to go to where the people are or at least to where they might be. I don't mean hanging out in the market square (I hate that spot) but at least in a more trafficked area than the Scrag's Teat.

These measures would serve to restrict interaction even further than it is by the existing roleplay.

Ungtar wrote:The big issue I see right off with this as a concept is that this isn't tabletop.

I repeat myself again: I found much of this in tabletop. Just from 2nd edition D&d instead of the 3rd.

If you want interaction then you have to go to where the people are or at least to where they might be. I don't mean hanging out in the market square (I hate that spot) but at least in a more trafficked area than the Scrag's Teat.

-A small surface expedition would bear little or no penalty, unless it gets way too long, something all Underdark denizens should avoid.
-I would rather have a good place to meet people in the Underdark than having to go to the surface to meet them.
-If you really have a good reason to go topside, you can face the penalties.

My general take is that mechanics, especially when not too intrusive, tend to help rp if well done. But again, since coding at present is not so easy to do, there is no urgency. I just wanted to throw up the idea.

Heh. If you have enough people logged on to your race for an expedition, you have all the interaction you need and no purpose to go to the surface.

"Good reason" is subjective. Is wanting to find someone to roleplay with considered a good reason?

I like the idea of making the Underdark more accessible but that would also serve to de-mystify it somewhat as a place of adventure. Would we come off the better for having, say, a caravan route directly from Daggerford to Skullport? Not for me to say.

There's a lot of beautiful areas below the surface that rarely see players. Aelskiath, the area around the Darklake, Skullport. Or just the wide open wilderness of the Underdark.

Honestly, the number one reason I don't go to the underdark isn't the danger but the 30% ore more stamina drain. I know it can be avoided to a degree, but doing so makes my mental map spin.

[quote="Yemin"]Honestly, the number one reason I don't go to the underdark isn't the danger but the 30% ore more stamina drain. I know it can be avoided to a degree, but doing so makes my mental map spin.[/quote

I spend an enormous amount of time down there with almost all of my characters but the stamina drain is a problem for all classes except a priest with plenty of revive spells.

The UD, as coded, isn't really that big. It's the equivalent of going from maybe Waterdeep to Westgate. There's currently only a handful of points of interest which are (for the main part) clustered in one location. So technically if you just want to hang out down there, the stamina drain isn't a huge issue.

BUT if you like to explore or travel in a difficult, wilderness setting then it's a problem.