Forgotten Kingdoms Forums

Something I'd been discussing with a few other players...

Paladins are the embodiment of holiness and righteousness. As such, they have an aura of Protection from Evil. Granted, in the MUD they have to cast the spell for the actual coded effects, but I still think that even without the spell, evil people would be naturally uncomfortable in the presence of a paladin.

My suggestion is this - evils in the same room with a paladin would receive an echo "You feel uncomfortable in $n's presence." Conversely, paladins might also receive an echo "$n makes you feel uncomfortable." when they're in the presence of an evil PC/mob.

Aside from roleplay, there would be no benefits.

I've seen medievil depictions of paladins, with halos it could be interesting if they had a permanent halo surrounding their heads, or it could be made into a visual aspect of the spell.

Hmm, I think it would be cool if paladins could have a (persistant? or maybe it could be made so it only lasts while your in said paladin's party?) protection from evil type spell that would cast on all members of the paladin's group.

This brings to mind another game, Diablo 2. I know it has nothing to do with FK, but the Paladins on that game had a very similar Aura and it was really neat. I like the idea.

Andreas wrote:Granted, in the MUD they have to cast the spell for the actual coded effects, but I still think that even without the spell, evil people would be naturally uncomfortable in the presence of a paladin.

I would have to agree with this, but not entirely, though. I feel that evils might not necessarily be uncomfortable in the presence of a paladin, whilst it would be most definite that a paladin feels uncomfortable in the presence of a paladin.

Thus...

My suggestion is this - evils in the same room with a paladin would receive an echo "You feel uncomfortable in $n's presence."

I would not agree entirely to this, but

Conversely, paladins might also receive an echo "$n makes you feel uncomfortable." when they're in the presence of an evil PC/mob.

This is such a neat idea!

-gissy

Paladins are the good of all good, I can see evils stuck in a room with them reacting like they've eaten bad shellfish. They feel the palable energies and sort of get a bit of the mind zap about them. Paladins route evil, like a breath mint, if you put them among evils they have adverse effects, unless the evils have the will to protect themselves from goodness.

Levine wrote:I would have to agree with this, but not entirely, though. I feel that evils might not necessarily be uncomfortable in the presence of a paladin, whilst it would be most definite that a paladin feels uncomfortable in the presence of a paladin.

Here I would disagree... we're not just talking about someone's dripping sugary sweetness as a paladin, but, per the book, the emination of a permanent aura of Protection from Evil. I would think that a divine spell that in terms of affect causes evils' spells to succeed less, and causes evils' attacks to miss the paladin more, would definitely be a causing a little distress to the evil person.

I think they were talking more of the PR aspects. If you're engaged in battle with a Paladin I imagine a bit of discomfort is the least of your worries.

Protection of Evil effect is arguably the spell with the most effects in AD&D. It's game functions include:
+1-4 to Saving Throws (Universal) against Evil
+1-2 to AC against Evil
(+25-50% Concealment against Evil)
Conjunction with the Gate spell and evil Extra Planar Summoning (Planar Binding)
Protection against energy drain
Save vs. Necromancy spells

Whereas a Paladin's Protection of Evil might have
Radius 1 room (or to group)
+1 to Saving Throws against Evil
+1 to AC against Evil
Detect Evil
Detected by Evil
and none of the other effects

Yay! Someone mentioned Diablo II! j/k

The spell already has all the coded "mechanical" effects in place. My suggestion is just a personal echo for the respective characters to enhance roleplay.

Although this is a good thing to consider when around a Paladin, I think it is forced role play and could ruin certain RPs. There are several evils that would not feel uncomfortable around Paladins. I think if this was set more as a suggestion post, that would be better. To suggest to evils that they would most likely feel uncomfortable around such a powerful force of good. I think ultimately the decision should be left up to the player and not the code for RP. Also it does have side effects that are not RP related. It is basically an automatic detection of evil aura. With that echo, you as a paladin, can immediately see who in the room is evil and give no chance for a deceptive player to get out of there before the Paladin can mark him for the others in the room. If everyone feels that every evil out there would in fact have this reaction, then I suppose it is a vaild point and should be implemented. Otherwise, I think it should be more a good suggestion to evils that you're going to be shakin' in your boots when a Paladin comes strollin' along.

Rad Adam - the Eye of the Storm

I think the idea would be great on the evil side of things. Having the evil get the " You feel uncomfortable around so and so" echo. But I don't certainly agree with the paladin getting the echo.

Eh, I would like the spell, a group protection from evil.

As for the echoes, ussually it is not hard to tell a paladin, and I think the RPing should be left up to the players instead of forcing them to feel uncomfortable. As paladins are the ultimate forces of good, there are also equal and opposite forces of evil who would put fear into the hearts of good in close proximity. I think that the echoes would force RP onto others and that any uneasiness or uncomfortableness, should be RPed. If you want your paladin to make evils uncomfortable, then do so, but it should be done through your RP, not through coded echoes. Paladins are a great class because of their RP, and I think this would detract from this, for their RP should already make evils uncomfortable.

Urgh, its a bit early and I had a long night, so most of that is rambling, but hopefully it had enough sense in it to put the general idea through.

Off topic, but in answer to Glim, Protection from Evil can be cast on a group.

Maybe make the personal echo a side effect of the spell itself, that was there isn't the constant "freebie" detection of evil.

I don't consider the effect to be forced roleplay. Whether or not your PC chooses to react to the personal echo is a matter of personal choice.

i.e. Jane Doe of Tyr has cast Protection from Evil on herself. She enters a room where the evil Joe Schmoe is hanging around. Jane gets a personal echo "You feel uncomfortable in Joe's presence." while at the same time Joe gets the echo "You feel uncomfortable in Jane's presence." No other PCs in the room see these echoes.

Jane's PLAYER decides to roleplay her character's discomfort while Joe's PLAYER decides his character might be uncomfortable but isn't going to show it.

Again, it's all a matter of personal choice on the part of the players how to roleplay the situation. As it stands now, what I see is most people completely ignoring the holy presence of a paladin. I just don't see this as being realistic. Either way you look at it (meaning 2nd or 3rd Edition), a paladin has a unique aura that affects evil.

Paladins are probably the most difficult class to play on FK. They are 99% roleplay and 1% code. Given that it takes at least a year or longer to become a paladin, I think a little bit of code to enhance their roleplay and reinforce their uniqueness would only benefit the game as a whole.

Andreas wrote:No other PCs in the room see these echoes.

If so, then I would have to agree.

This idea would enhance RP to a certain extent, as I am pretty sure that some players choose not to react to the red aura around evils when they see it sometimes. With the echo, one might feel inclined to do something in response to it.

A fair suggestion, especially when the players are given the choice of how to react.

-gissy

It also allows evil PCs to react to a paladin in a way they would like to, to show realism, without knowing OOC that they are a paladin.

e.g: A paladin that I have RPed with many times on an alt enters the Square, so I know that my character should shiver/look uncomfortable. But if new paladin Joe Bloggs, or such like, enters, then I would not know that I should feel uncomfortable around this PC.

It would not look real if:

Dr Evil waves to Joe Bloggs.
Joe Bloggs says, "Greetings... I am Sir Bloggs of Helm."
Dr Evil shudders suddenly.

IMHO, the shuddering should happen before...

I hope some of that makes sense. This change would greatly improve RP both for paladins, and those who want to RP with those illustrious, romantic tin-cans.

I just had a gander at 'The Complete Paladin's Handbook', and felt I should add my two coppers to this thread.

'The Complete Paladin's Handbook' wrote:Aura of Protection
• Evil opponents experience the paladin's aura of protection as an unpleasant physical
sensation, such as mild nausea, a prickling of the skin, a tightening of the throat, or a sudden
chill. Because the sensation is so pronounced, evil opponents can almost always identify a
paladin as the source, even if the paladin is disguised. Non-evil creatures and characters don't
experience these sensations. Consequently, they may not be sure when they move in and out of
the aura's range. Nor does the paladin feel anything unusual when an evil opponent enters the
aura; therefore, the aura in no way helps to detect evil.

Therefore, the echo should only be for evils. Yar. Pallies need to cast 'detect evil' to detect evil.