[SPELL] Meteor Swarm - Missing Bludgeoning Damage

[dolifer]

Here's a description of the standard meteor swarm spell: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/meteorSwarm.htm.

The biggest difference I can see between this and the FK spell is that in standard rules the meteors do physical bludgeoning damage on top of the expected fire damage, while in FK they do strictly fire damage. This means that the spell is completely harmless to fire elementals and similar creatures, as well as anyone under the right sort of energy immunity.

The difference in damage doesn't seem like much (2d6), but when you multiply that roll by four (for each meteor created), it could make the spell much more respectable, as I find it pretty underpowered as it is now.

Thanks much!

[Raona]

How do others familiar with this spell feel about it in terms of balance? Is it one that people use a lot, or is it largely ignored? If bludgeoning damage is added in, should fire damage be reduced concomitantly?

[Althasizor]

I don't know how much fire damage it's currently doing total. SRD has it at 6d6 fire damage, so if the spell's total in FK is 24d6, its fire damage shouldn't need any reduction to bring it up in-line with SRD by adding bludgeoning. It's a pretty rare spell, too, so it doesn't see very frequent use.

It's hard to say, in terms of balance. It's a 9th level spell that doesn't stack up particularly well compared to others of that level(Wail of the Banshee, Timestop, Power Word, Kill, etc.). It's definitely powerful, but I can't see any balance reasons not to give it a buff up to SRD if it doesn't already match it.

[Yemin]

I'd be for giving it the bludgeoning just as a way of giving evokers more options when fighting the mobs that IMs like to throw at us during events.

I've only played FK for just under 2 years or something... feels longer but it seems the favourite is immune or resistant to everything apart from like... a blade in the chest and sometimes even that's kinda cut down with damage resistance... so yeah.

I'm not a builder so I don't know the code for it, but from seeing it cast at inept skill, it seems like the fire damage at least is at what it should be or a bit under. Skill dependancy over level dependant effects is kinda weird to translate.

[Lirith]

This is a very very rare spells as Alth said, so there isn't a lot of experience with it currently for anyone to give a lot of feedback. Having said that, and as someone who has seen it work, I think there is a case for it causing both fire and bludgeoning damage. It -should- be terrible and dangerous, it's a level 9 spell.

Most wizards don't have a significant number of level 9 slots (between 4 and 6? I only have one character to estimate from), and those have to be spread between all other level 9 spells available and any other lower level spells that are using metamagic feats. It's not likely that most well-prepared wizards are going to be casting much more than a couple of these from their list so I don't think allowing for both types of damage would be unbalancing.

If it is currently doing about the right amount of damage with the numbers then I would be in favour of reducing some for fire and adding for bludgeoning to keep it the same overall.

[Raona]

It looks like meteor swarm is currently coded as a purely 4 x fireball spell. So the damage is likely higher than canon would have it be for anyone who can cast it (up to 10d6, vs. 6d6 by canon) but this possibility is entirely uncoded:

If you aim a sphere at a specific creature, you may make a ranged touch attack to strike the target with the meteor. Any creature struck by one of these spheres takes 2d6 points of bludgeoning damage (no save) and receives no saving throw against the sphere’s fire damage (see below). If a targeted sphere misses its target, it simply explodes at the nearest corner of the target’s space. You may aim more than one meteor at the same target.

It would be a stretch of my spell code skills to enact the above, but I'm game to give it a try. I don't suppose there is an existing spell that does bludgeoning damage, no save, but requires a touch attack? (Anyone know of one?)

Note that reducing the fire damage may make less punch get through certain types of damage reduction in some cases (some DR will block both the bludgeoning and fire damage completely, making the target immune).

Thanks for the feedback, everyone, and thank you for making the reasoning behind your suggestion clear and succinct, Dolifer.

[Alitar]

Earth Reaver's damage code might be bludgeon, I'm afraid I wouldn't know too well.

[Raona]

Alrighty, I have played with this some and I believe the only way to make an additional affect workable for Meteor Swarm would be to add a new, separate spell element for the bludgeoning damage. Otherwise the ranged touch attack failing means no fireball affect, either. Adding in a new spell element is a stretch for me, having just returned, so I'm putting this on the shelf until I've knocked more of the rust off.

[dolifer]

Very cool of you to play around with it, though. Thanks a lot for considering this!

[Zorinar]

I think the weakness we feel from the spell is due to the fact that we train spells here from Inept to GM. As it is level 9, it will take a very very long time to get it high and to finally realize its damage potential. for a level 9 spell is it weaker than a level 7 spell moderately trained up. I'm sure the power will get more agreeable later on. Sometimes I do wish we had a solution for that kind of issue but, that is for another thread I guess. I can see how this would be hard to build without coding. Four 6d6 fireballs with no save that do an additional 2d6 per projective with no save, and bludgeoning damage on top of that making it an (8d6) x 4 overall damage. Would it maybe be possible to just make 4 fireballs and then add 4 meteors, for a total of 8 projectiles that all end up doing the appropriate damage and damage type instead of trying to play with damage types on the four main fireballs? More spammy but probably not as bad as Storm of Vengeance. Or we could keep it simple and just keep it as is.