[SPELL] Timestop - Fails against Certain Creatures

[dolifer]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/timeStop.htm

The problem with this spell in FK, I think, is that it effects other creatures, instead of the caster, and those creatures appear to get a saving throw against the spell. In standard rules this spell never fails, as it targets the caster him/herself and thus cannot be resisted. I've noticed that it's relatively easy to resist the effect in FK, which completely opposes the spirit of this spell.

I understand that because of code limitations this spell does actually need to be cast on other creatures in FK, as the stun effect needs to be placed upon them, but I would suggest removing any saving throws or the like to better simulate what this spell is supposed to do.

Thanks!

[Raona]

Game balance requires a good many modifications to stock D&D rules, and I suspect this is one such modification. If you feel the spell is not as powerful as its level should dictate, please indicate that and I'll look into it. If the helpfile needs adding to because the difference from canon is not spelled out, that's also a good thing to do. But if it is just the difference from canon that motivates this suggestion, my first assumption is there is a solid reason for it - all spells start out canon and then get tweaked to ensure balance.

[dolifer]

So the helpfile does mention that this is actually coded as a mind-effecting transmutation (completely overlooked that until now), which itself suggests that something's not quite right with the spell as is. That is, transmutations don't make something appear to be the case; rather, they do make it the case. Timestop, for instance, doesn't put the suggestion in another's mind that time is slowing down, but it *in fact* slows time (and hence the lack of any saving throws in standard rules--the spell has no direct effect on creatures at all). I think that's my biggest reasoning for this one. The spell as it is now strikes me as fitting more correctly in the sphere of illusion or enchantment.

If balance is an issue with this spell and no changes are warrented, I would completely understand, but at that point I would suggest making the helpfile clearer as to the difference in effect between FK and standard rules, as I feel the difference is a significant one, to say the least. I would even go so far as to say it should at that point be modified to reside within one of the spheres mentioned above, since it's doing no real transmutation right now.

I'm down with having our own version of the spell that works differently from standard rules. I just don't want future casters of the spell to make the mistake I did and assume it works as in D&D, because it's the biggest do-or-die spell I can think of, and it was a hard lesson learned when I found out in the middle of battle. Haha.

[Yemin]

Time Stop
=========
Transmutation [Mind-affecting]
Range: Area
Target: Ignored
Syntax: c timestop
This spell *seems* to make time cease to flow for everyone but you. In fact, you speed up so greatly that all other creatures seem frozen, though they are actually still moving at their normal speeds. You are free to act for the duration of the spell. While the time stop is in effect, other creatures are invulnerable to your attacks and spells; you cannot target such creatures
with any attack or spell. The spell affects all the creatures except those grouped up with the caster.

SEEMS to fit snuggly in illusion to me. Would go agains the spirit of the spell though. To me timestop in FK has already been made more difficult with the inclusion of harder than average to gain conponents.

I think the purpose of the spell is pretty clear... oh crap, the world ending dracolich is about to blow the Torm damned love out of this abbey we're standing right infront of...lets get tf outta the way. I'm unsure how much an imbalance it can be for it to be nosave. Though arguments can be made that a spell that lets wizards pretty much autoescape every assassination attempt, which is one of the cleanest ways of killing them is cheap but hey ho, magic overall is a cheap tactic in dnd at higher levels.

Weirdly, what bothers me more is that someone thought it was ok to put a mind effecting tag on a transmutation spell..., I'm getting that crazy eye twitch of my inner wizard ICLy going... are you stark raving mad? *slap slap* who tutored you in magic? an Uthgar barbarian?

Its likely my OCD speaking but I'd rather it get dropped into illusion and made mind effecting, even if that makes it useless against constructs, undead and various demons/devils/abirations. Or made a full transmutation and nosave.

[Hrosskell]

This spell seems to make time cease to flow for everyone but you. In fact, you speed up so greatly that all other creatures seem frozen, though they are actually still moving at their normal speeds. You are free to act for the duration of the spell. While the time stop is in effect, other creatures are invulnerable to your attacks and spells; you cannot target such creatures with any attack or spell. The spell affects all the creatures except those grouped up with the caster.

Emphasis mine. The transmutation that occurs speeds up the caster--this shouldn't have a save because there are no enemy targets.