Spiked Chain's Weapon Category

[Areia]

Hello, everyone!

I wanted to point out a small issue in either the spiked chain weapon or the great chains helpfile. I have a spiked chain that is in the chains weapon category, while the aforementioned helpfile puts spiked chains in the great chains category.

I feel like spiked chains should probably be great chains, but I'm not sure it'd be fair or even practical to change that, since there are probably folks out there who have spent feat points and such on the chains category for this weapon's use. So I'd suggest updating the chains and great chains helpfiles to reflect that spiked chains are in fact chains.

Wow, that was a lot of chains. Hope it made sense!

[Alitar]

Looks like Areia votes for chainge.

[Althasizor]

Make spiked chains great again?

[Areia]

Make spiked chains great again?

...This.

lol, yous guys.

[Alitar]

Make spiked chains great again?

Well played. I concede to the better pun.

In defeat I offer this....

https://www.reddit.com/r/DMDadJokes/

[Talos]

Given how few people use these (sadly they lack most of their nifty abilities,) if enough people who would use it want it as great chains, I do not see much problem with it. Though is chains a weapon category open to more classes? I could see that being a reason to keep it chains.

[Althasizor]

Of the classes I just checked really quick, the only one who got only chains was the bard. The others either had both(Cleric, fighter, ranger), or neither (Wizard, rogue).

[Jarngron]

I'd like to offer my two copper on the subject, being fairly new to the balance in FK I have more experience with chains and those who wield them.

A little of my obtuse experience in tabletop:
I remember the most useful chain user being an Urgothan cleric. She was a very beautiful lawful evil, a lot like our Areia. She used a vicious spiked chain.

However, my lovely NPC friend stored cause wound spells to help amp up her strikes, allowing her to bring the pain when she whacked them, the vicious rolled, and she delivered the cause on contact.

Since you can't store a spell in your chain, I don't think that's viable to shoehorn into FK but was worth bringing up.

I believe that is exactly the sort of thing Talos was mentioning when he said that they lacked most of their nifty abilities, right? Well, that in mind, it does seem to diminish the need for an exotic spiked chain. Since this exotic weapon was originally balanced by features that are not in existence in FK, there isn't really anything at this point to set apart the spiked chain.

[Jarngron]

Thinking back to this same chainwielding cleric of evil, I was once in desperate need of stabilization and she had a cure mod wounds stored in that vicious chain of hers.

So as I lay bleeding out, she effectively hit me with the chain - and stabilized me when the cure spell took effect.

I figured some of our scourgewielders would get a kick out of this story.

[Yemin]

The abilities being referred to were that chains like halberds on FK have no advantage for their reach quality, and that chains could not be used for the trip maneuver currently.

By my understanding of the term, they should be great chains because of their weight, size and reach.

I would say the reason weapons such as these are not used more is partly because they are fairly rare to come across on quests or in shops. I've probably seen one but cannot recall it. This on top of their mechanical shortfalls anyway.

Sounds like that cleric had a dusk blade like ability to channel her spells through her weapon.

The most Iconic thing in DnD for me when spiked chains come up are the hobgoblin chain masters from the Eberron setting. They're worth a google if not a reason to read the Eberron Novels for them alone.

[Areia]

Hey! Sorry I'm so late getting back to this.

So yes, as Yemin said, they should be great chains. I think the one I have weighs about nine pounds. more than a greatsword and probably even larger than one. Definitely harder not to kill yourself with, I'd imagine.

But my concern was that by changing the category it falls in, wouldn't that screw those who have already purchased things like weapon focus, weapon spec, etc. in chains for use with this specific weapon? There probably aren't many, but they're definitely out there.

So that's why I thought just changing the helpfiles to read accurately might be the best option. If the above assumption is wrong, then by all means, I'd advocate making them great chains as they should be and as they were likely intended to be.

But yeah, they are pretty rare. And even rarer to actually be used. So you probably won't see many more than myself who cares about them for their own use.

<digression>
Jarngron. That last bit reminds me of a weapon my tabletop halforcish barbarian used to wield. It was a ridiculous let's-be-as-not-serious-as-possible sort of game, and everyone had the most useless magical gear ever. +3 Greatclub of cure moderate wounds. The mental image I get of ten tons of raging muscle beating the absolute crap out of his friends just to gamble on keeping them alive is still more hilarious to me than it probably should be. I'm such a sick individual.
</digression>

[Areia]

Thought I'd check in to see if any decision had been or is being made on this front.

To restate since it's been a while: Spiked chains should (and was very likely intended to) fall under the great chains weapons type while currently they are under chains. The only class who gets chains but not great chains is bard, so I think it would not hurt any class mechanics to change (bards should probably not normally be hefting these massive things around, anyway!). The concern I proposed was that this change might negatively impact those few who might have purchased weapon spec and focus feats in chains for use with this particular weapon.

I as always do not intend to come off as pushy or anything; just getting near time to purchase feats for this and want to make sure of the state of things before I go out and purchase feats a day before a change comes in, as my luck would ensure would happen! I'm also not expecting anything like immediate replies on account of the time of year and everything.

If feat points can be easily refunded for those who have taken specs etc. for certain weapon types, I think the concern I mentioned above is potentially little to worry about. I just am not familiar with how such things work or even how many recent PC's have actually spec'd for this and whatnot.