Tells and otells

[Mele]

Just a subject I'd like to get into discussion to hear other opinions. :)

I have a very secluded character whom rarely associates with others and is very finicky about who she shares her name with. Lately she has recieved tells from people who I am positive have never even been in the same room as her. The people automatically calling her by her title of class, or even name. Personally, I feel that just because we have been granted ungreeted tells it does not mean we should use the who list as a tellbook. I think that one should atleast see the person, or hear of the person before sending the person a tell. Tell bob Hey, I heard of you from Joe, how's the air? Etc. Thoughts?

I'd just like to hear how everyone else feels about this. :)

Danica

[Tandria]

I'll have to agree with Mele on this one. One thing about FK that I find unique is the fact that people don't usually mindspeak to random people asking to adventure or what not, and that's where the whole concept of roleplay and interacting with others comes into play; however, I very much like the fact that others don't need to be greeted to send tells. It allows those who don't greet to receive them, and if you have died and know OF someone at the very least (a famous character or a hero, for example), then you don't have to worry quite as much.

However, I don't believe this warrants sending people you haven't heard of ICly tells. In this sense, it just seems far too random, and, RP-wise, doesn't make a whole lot of sense. If you've never heard of a person, you shouldn't be able to randomly say "Hi there -name- and -class-, nice to meet ya" in a tell.

My two cents .

[Tychina]

It is annoying. And while I can easily detune, I do not feel I should have to. I try to find ic ways to deal with it, if I can. Easier to do on one char then the rest granted, but thats cause she doesn't give a flip what most people think of her *grin* I find a nice reply of "who are you, why are you in my head? I did not give you permisison to enter my thoughts, stay out or I will (insert some threat of bodily harm here)" usually works wonders. Heck, she does that to some folks she HAS greeted, she makes a point of letting someone know if they are welcome "in her head" or not, and those who aren't (most of them) usually learn and stay out.

This will not work, if you have a goody character I supose, can't go around threatening to maim people *sigh* But as annoying and tiring as it can be to do, and as much as we maybe should not have to, a reminder (gentle or otherwise) can -usually- get the point across.

[Lerytha]

Personally, I never send IC tells to anyone without having met them before. However, I do send tells to people I may have only glimpsed once, and then heard a lot about.

I do not agree with random picking out of people.

Also, taking advantage of the fact that you see a "hero" on the who list and picking them out without meeting them first, is, IMHO, a bit much.

Perhaps a little leniency for those who have died, and see a High Priest online... perhaps. For casual adventuring, though, I would say stick to those you know well.

My characters always RP as the mindspeak requiring knowledge of the individual which enables easier communication through the myriad of possibilities open to the Weave.

This is by no means official. I'm not even sure if you HAVE amulets of communication in Forgotten Realms, but I find that idea is the easiest to go by.

Just a few ideas/agreements, there.

[Cyric]

Technically, if you have a help file in the game, it is assumed that anything contained within that help file is common knowledge to most educated individuals. So, most High Priests or Lords of the Keep (etc) would be well known.

Tells are hard to classify, as I really don't remember reading anything specific about them in any book / handbook / guide. But in my opinion, I'd see it as a loose web of people connected by magic of the weeve. Now, picking someone specifically out of the web that you have never met could be considered poor form, as this is a giant web of people, and you've managed to pinpoint someone you have never seen, or even "heard of". Again, it's up in the air for me, because I have never read anything on it.

Regardless, we have found that being able to tell ungreeted characters has facilitated in roleplays (especially those involving another's death), and such. Therefore, we'd like to see it stay in the game. Which is why we will rely on you to RP that stranger tell.

As for how I handle it? Some people might send me an informal tell, as if they have known you for your whole life. So I find it enjoyable to ignore them until they have the courage and drive to come find me. Want to find my ranger? Guess you better start looking in some forests. Need some ore from my dwarf? Look in MH, or even the temples of his god.

[Sean]

I've always viewed tells as a sort of... Personal...

I mean, you have to know the person well enough to pick out not their description, or name, but essentually, their mind. For mages, this might be a little easier, considering they've experience with such mental activities. But for my men of the blades, I use tells as little as possible, prefering to hunt down the people on foot first. (With exceptions, as always, such as death, or tracking down a member of a faith for something important)

But as far as Strangers sending people tells... As part of the code, I think it is great. It allows people to recive tells who don't actually greet people. It allows dead people to send tells to famous clergy. So even with its little flaws that arrise not due to it's implimantation, but rather people using it in bad RP form. Sure, rules could be made, but they shouldn't have too...

So really, lets hope people read this thread, and learn to watch themselves when doing that. That way the problem gets fixed, and nothing has to be done!

~Sean Vallar, Faithful Follower and Swordsman of Justice

[Andreas]

I definitely agree that being able to send tells to people who don't greet helps to facilitate roleplay... when used responsibly.

Sending tells to Heroes is, IMO, borderline. To put it in more realistic terms... would you call up (insert name of famous actor/actress/political figure here) on the phone for a chat if you'd never met them? I don't think so.

So maybe you've seen said Hero PC in the market or something, but didn't actually talk to them. That might be a little more acceptable... but not by much.

Biggest problem I've had with this is...

1. People sending tells just to "say hi" - WHY are you doing this? Do you call random people on the phone, too?

2. PCs asking for help from those of opposed faith/alignment - I can understand that people who aren't familiar with the game setting might make this mistake. However, I think the Hero titles and personal PC titles are pretty self explanatory. Evil PCs that I have never met before who call on Andreas for help had better be prepared for a lot of RP and most likely refusal of aid when he finally tracks 'em down and discovers that they're evil.

3. PCs getting in a fix and asking for help - granted, Andreas is generally the helpy-helper type, but there's only one of him and I DO have a real life and can't always be racing off to help X, Y, and Z PCs all at the same time! NEWBIES: ROLEPLAY, MAKE FRIENDS & ADVENTURE TOGETHER!!!

Please, give more consideration to your roleplay and your fellow players before sending tells to people you have not met in character.

[Lea]

I have to be very honest with this and say that I dislike people being able to send ungreeted tells. Several times I have had to detune my amulet because I was being harassed through regular tells. They didn't even bother to use otells and everything was ooc that was being sent to me.

I know it was done for a purpose but being on newbie council and having to turn off tells when I am trying to rp is not something I like to do. Because then when someone ic needs me to send me a tell and I have them off then it is pretty much useless.

Sorry I know I am ranting but this is how I feel about the non greeted tells. And before I am told to report the harassment it has already been done.

[Gidan]

I as well feel that some one should at least know the character. I have, on several ocasions had tells sent to me that read something like this. " I have heard you are a brave warrior and I am in a bit of a squeeze, could you come save me?" I have never seen this person before and a few times the person has turned out to be a low level evil that I would not help had I met them before.


Just my opinoin.

[Dalvyn]

I'm with Lea on this.

Ungreeted otells are fine in my opinion; they can be used to set up some roleplays and, in some situations, organize a "chance" meeting between characters (only 2 people online; you don't know each other and suggest OOCly to meet up in an appropriate room to roleplay for example).

But I see no IC explanation to be able to contact the mind of someone you do not know, so I would refrain from using tells in that way.

(Usual disclaimer... that's just my opinion)

[Elenthis]

I have one instance that I'd like to use to show a possibly differant perspective.

A few days ago, a character that appeared to be around level 15-25 sent me a tell which basically said "Are you <character>, whom I've heard so much about?

I replied "I am, but I wonder how you have managed to pick my mind from so many"

His reply, which I must congratulate was "If what I hear is true, then you are a wizard of some power. I believe it so, as your mind stood out from so many".

Now...while there is no code to back that statement, I still have to say, he had his ducks ina row... The flattery was +10 pts, and the logic was +50. IMO, there -are- uses beyond death for ungreeted tells, and I'd hate to see them dissappear. One suggestion: If you are sent a TELL from an obviously new player asking OOC info, that seems an excellent time to coach them on our hard earned seperation of IC and OOC. Newbie counsel or no, it isnt too hard to direct someone to the helpfile, or to a NC member....or even to

reply <character> (ooc) We use a seperate system for out-of-character information. Otell is a much better way to communicate OOCly to another character when the need arises. For more info, type Help Otell or help OOC.

Just some thoughts
~<Character>.

[Ciele]

And there are of course still those people who don't greet, not all of them because they're hoping you'll forget them.

And then from another point of view, my character would be far too shy to send tells to most of the people she has met and talked to, especially in an asking for help situation, even those that have said things like 'don't hesitate to ask if you need a hand'. There are probably only one or two people she could pluck up the courage to ask. I don't think there's anything wrong with ungreeted tells, just possibly what some people do with them.

[Dalvyn]

(in answer to Elenthis's post... Ciele's came in while I was writing this)

Sorry, but I do not think that this logic makes any sense ICly (although I too would have been blinded by the obviously flattering comment): in a world like the Forgotten Realms, the mind of a high-level wizard (1) wouldn't "stand out" that much, especially with all the higher-level wizards around and (2) would most likely be protected against intrusion. Besides, (3) I would guess that most higher-level wizards wouldn't take kindly to every young novice contacting them directly and that their reactions would become well-known and incite people not to do so anymore.

Nowadays, the myth that famous persons are "something more than the average person" has disappeared: You know that your favorite singer / actor / actress / politician / mud builder is just a normal person. Yet, I doubt you would pick up your phone and contact them to have a chat with them or ask them to send you a picture with an autograph. Compare this to how most high level characters are considered in a D&D world (you could say like living legends, like heroes, like demi-gods, ...). With that in mind, would people really send them tells? That is why I don't really believe in the "They are famous people, you can contact their mind easily" argument.

IMO, there -are- uses beyond death for ungreeted tells, and I'd hate to see them dissappear.

I am afraid I fail to see them (the uses beyond death).

Ungreeted tells from dead persons might perhaps be a good thing; I am far from convinced of it though. In my opinion, the fact that, as a dead, you could contact only people who have greeted you incited people to seek out other people and thus make some roleplay. Frankly, the character who gets out of the newbie temple and runs directly into a levelling area and gets to level 40 in 10 hours (yes, such a thing has already happened) without greeting anyone... well, if that character dies and cannot contact anyone to get raised, too bad for him/her.

[Argentia]

I can see the merit in ungreeted tells; I myself have benifited from them already. However, they are something the player must use restraint and above all else common sense when using. An example I think was rather good of meing the subject of an ungreeted tell:

Character Bob is young, maybe mid-level, 25-35 or so, and has died, alone, in Nonamedungeon. He tells my Ilmateri character for help. I say that I do not recognize the name, and his explination is something along the lines of, "In my anguish of death I cried out in hopes someone would hear me. It seems my cry has reached you." To me, this makes much sense, as my character is one who would always be willing to help the dead rest.(Or rise again if that is what they wish.) Because of such strong will and faith, said character, I would imagine, would be more in tune with the voices of the unrested dead, and as such might be one of the first to hear those cries. I thought this was very good justification, but in all honesty I can only see it working for characters with very anti-undead agendas such as Ilmater, Kelemvor, and Lathander.

A situation where it has benefited me...
I have seen character Jane on many occasions. Though I have never been formally greeted IC, I could most likely guess the name on account of hearing the name said about the person/hearing stories, ect. Jane is needed for an RP, her name has been specifically mentioned by another character. Although she is ungreeted, to me it makes sense to tell her and say something like, "Is this the person known as Jane? If not, I apologize for the mix-up" since I can place a face to go with that name.

But telling someone you have never seen before without proper justification? I think that's a no-no. As for famous people(Like Elenthis ) I think it would make sense to tell them. You may not call up the president or Evander Holyfield if you need help, but you might contact your local senate member if you need help or make an appointment with a well-known artist for tips on how to improve your own art.

My overall point here would be: use discrection with ungreeted tells. If you can't stop for a minute and think up a solid justification for telling that person, then don't tell that person.

[Lerytha]

Just a note: I think ungreeted tells have now been removed, for IC use... OOC ungreeted tells work fine.

So... that, I think is a happy medium.

[Gwain]

There is one European president that made his telephone number publicly known He hates cabbage.

I have recieved an ungreeted tell in the form of ic threats and can honestly say this is a terrible thing. If you want to threaten someone you should know them icly that way you don't accidentally threaten their mother or namesake.

[Legault]

Awwww, this has ruined some of my rp. Oh well, I liked it how it was......

[Telk]

Could this possibly be changed back, and maybe something added into the helpfile about using the ungreeted tells IC with responsibility? I have had a few very good RPs on characters that were over tells with ungreeted others, for instance coming across the person, then sending them a tell, a great example of this might be a orc and a elf, where the orc sees the elf and the elf walks off, then the orc contacts the elf calls him various names, they meet up and RP some more, this would probably never be possible if it weren't for the ungreeted tells. So there is quite a bit of merit to the ungreeted tells, I just think that people should be aware to use it responsibly, and not to say hi! to a famous character who you may have never even seen in your life.

Just my two cents.

[Ciele]

Would it be possible to have a sort of two-part detune, one from greeted tells and one from ungreeted ones? That way, those who like them can keep them, and those who don't can ignore them without having to ignore all their other tells too.

[Tyr]

Tells were never meant to be allowed without greeting. They use the characters true name to contact them. If a character has not greeted you then you do not know their true name and cannot contact them.

This is one reason why some characters do not greet others. They do not want to give away the power of their true name.

Tyr