Role playing of not only class, but of reality

Dargeth · Post by **Dargeth** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 4:41 am

I hope all who read this take this post as what it is: Just a slight concern for a game I truly love and thats it. It is not a flame, nor a gripe, nor a suggestion that everything change. What it is, is a suggestion to enhance the game for everyone. I have played on muds for a long time. And I have played almost exclusivly rangers. I play them, not only because I love the class, and know the class very well, but also because I love to role play a ranger. That is why I play....to role play. The concern I have always had, especially with a ranger, is that muds limit a lot of role play for rangers. It is hard on a mud with a limited number of rooms, for people to suspend disbelief, and not have their characters zoom through forests and other wilderness areas without concern. This unfortunately, takes a lot away from the skill of a ranger. A small detail, but one I often find myself wishing could be changed. The big thing for me, that goes along with all that, is the knowledge a ranger possesses about the wilderness they travel. Rangers are at home in the wilderness. It is their home turf so to speak. They are quite adept at moving through it and defending it. They know secret routes, hiding places, ambush spots, etc.
This brings me to my concern. In a purely mud atmosphere, it is hard for a ranger to defend his home from those of an evil intent. Rooms are limited, we cannot attack from hiding with hails of arrows, and we cannot use our hard earned knowledge of our homes to defend them. As I said before, this is a limit imposed on not just rangers, but most classes because it is still just a text based game. But I do believe things can be done to give everyone a great experiance. Let us remember that we play on a role play based mud. Let us use the role playing skills that I know many of us have, and instead of resorting to the basic mud combat, role play out situations and skirmishes. If you walk into a forest that is home to a ranger, realize that just as you know how to use a sword, or know how to cast a spell, that ranger knows his home, knows its ins and outs. Know that he could lead you on paths that would get you totally lost. Know that he could lead you to an angry bear who is hungry. Or equally, know that he could lead you to one of the most beautiful forest glades you have ever seen. And in that same context, know that if you attack a ranger in his home, he will know how to defend it without you even seeing him. I assume most have seen or read the Lord of the Rings trilogy. Think of the elves of Lothlorien and how you could step into their woods, and die without never knowing what killed you. All I ask in this, is that you consider what a ranger is and perhaps, role play appropriately. And this is true for most classes. My character knows he will never fight as well as a fighter. And he also knows he will not know the wilds as well as a druid. Give us rangers a chance to truly show what the class is made of. I gladly give others a chance to do that with other classes. It is what makes the role play fun and satisfying. And if you dont know about a certain class....just ask. Chances are the people are playing that class because they like it. Well...I hope I havent rambled to much and I hope this all makes sense. Like I said, I am just a passionate role player, and passionate about the class I play:) I would love to hear what others have to say.

Dargeth

Rorix · Post by **Rorix** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 2:08 pm

Dargeth, you make some great points about role play and have even throught out counter arguments already (ie discussing the limitations for the mud). Although at first I was turnned off by this post being about rangers and all

I realized that I too have experienced this problem. I think the real problem we are experiencing is people's reluctancy to 'go along' with RPs. Take for example my side of the playing field. People generally refuse to get deceived. Even if their character might have been, they will opt out of it, for something negative is going to happen to their character. The problem I think is people think they are going to get, for lack of a better word, screwed. I think FK has matured quiet a bit since I have been here and many people have started to go along with rp such as you leading them to a good lookin' glade ... or a mage hypnotizing you. As long as this cooperation of not letting out reaching RPers getting taken advantage of, I think the trust factor will continue to grow and more RPs like you are talking about will start to happen much more frequently.

Rad Adam - the Eye of the Storm

P.S. Thanks for the heads up post to keep a Rangers POV in mind

Helm · Post by **Helm** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 4:12 pm

I agree with both of the above posts. People need to realize and I have said this over and over: Make sure the role play is as fun for them as it is for you. If we can all keep that in mind, then player kills will not become complaints but something that the bards will sing about. There are many things that you can do to enhance the roleplay of those around you. Please keep these things in mind. A paladin can bang on the gates of Zhentil Keep, just don't expect to live through it!

Mele · Post by **Mele** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 6:45 pm

There are a ton of rangers in the game. A lot lot. Out of all of those rangers, only -three- have ever used words, instead of immediate combat threat(or even questioning why I'm where I am). Not all evils are out for the pk, but I can guaruntee all evils will defend themselves, and try not to behave weak. There seems to be a huge misconception that every time an evil comes out to play, whether it be inside Waterdeep, or inside Ardeep, they are out for pk. This is -so- not the case. On my own personal level, as the player of Daunyelle, you can ask any single person who is close to me how I feel about the pk, and they will flat out tell you -hate- it. Even yesterday, with a large scale pk situation, one evil was mocking her calling her weak, and even through that she basically said "I have caused my pain, if you want murder, find a Cyricist." I was there for the rp. Immediately, once an evil is spotted somewhere, the red flag comes up and several goods come out. While I understand that it -is- an evil person and this -is- logical, what is not logical, is jumping in for pk, or pushing into pk, rather than rping. There have been several situations that I went in for rp, mental anguish is a beautiful thing, and been threatened, attacked, or insulted into a pk situation. I fully understand what goes along with that little red aura, that's what makes the aura appealing. :) But evil does not mean the person does not want to rp. :)

Okay, I've completely babbbled, but the bottom line is, I agree, completely. As an often played evil, I would so much rather walk into a forest, and have someone 'up in a tree' shoot my little butt with an arrow, then have five huge rangers standing in front of me in the open, barking commands to leave or demands for why I'm there.

Danica

Nysan · Post by **Nysan** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:13 pm

*nods, sighs, and nods again*

Its hard for some to look beyond what a siutation will do for them and simple enjoy the rp of the moment. Its hard for them to be creative in their tasks instead of doing the basics and looking for the easy way to the end of the path.
I would love to see more smotes and emotes used in any/all situations. I would love to see a ranger shooting from a tree with emotes/smotes rather than get five of their buddies and stand in front of trespassers with open threats. I would like to see wizards/priests smote/emote flipping through a spellbook, grasping their symbols in prayer, reaching into their spell pouches, ect.
But saddly that is not the state of things. Quick one or two line rps, MUD system rules thinking, and self serving/self preservation is more often to be found. It a community problem. Not really the fault of anyone. We as a group just seem to do whats needed to get by. (There are great rp sessions that happen, granted. But they are very few compared to the number of the 'only the basics' rp and gameplay.)

Ranting and babbling, take it as it is.

-Agree so much with the evil/pk thoughts. Can't remember the last time Nysan caused or was even thinking about the death of another character. He's out of the Keep cause he likes to travel more than anything. You'd be bored and want a change too if you stayed in the same town all the time.

N.R.

Belose · Post by **Belose** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 8:49 am

Nysan wrote:*I would love to see more smotes and emotes used in any/all situations.

I would actually LOVE to see more socials used, and which can also be done creatively in a lot of situations..especially when there are more than 4 people in a room trying to RP. I'm not putting down smotes and emotes, but if you have 6 people in a room and they are all talking or emoting or smoting, especially the longer ones, you can miss a lot things that you really don't want to miss...

Dalvyn · Post by **Dalvyn** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 5:59 pm

Some food for thought, I do not wish to take side: Isn't, in rangerland, slaughtering all the animals you meet and/or putting the forest on fire, an invitation to pkill? Isn't that like slauthering all the mobs in a temple and saying you came there just to roleplay?

Talamar · Post by **Talamar** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 6:28 pm

Also, and I don't want to sound negative or anything, but if I played an evil character, that wanted to get back at the Rangers that generally are in Ardeep...

Couldn't I just smote buying about 20 flasks of Oil, going out into the forest there, spreading it around as best I could and lightning it?

On a game like this, there has to be a balance. Striving for that balance is something the Imm's do, and are good at, and as players we have to do our best to achieve as well.

Mele · Post by **Mele** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 6:55 pm

What is the likelyhood that if someone killed temple mobs / kill furry woodland creatures and set a tree on fire that a pack of faith goers, or a pack of rangers, would stumble on singular tree/dead mob before the person/people could run off? No one would walk up to a tree with someone three trees over and set it alight. I've had a case where someone has attacked a temple mob, never saw the person again. I don't think it's an invitation for pk at all.

Danica

Zilvryn · Post by **Zilvryn** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 7:17 pm

In a situation recently, on one of my evils, I went and sat in Ardeep, cast produce flame and set my pose to "here conjuring flame at the base of an ancient oak tree" or something. After waiting there for 15mins or so a global echo went out, I assume to aid me in my search to RP. And for this I am thankful.

I did not do this to instigate a PK situation, Daunyelle and another Lovite were with me, we merely did this to facilitate RP. And although, it did in the end, end up with a huge good vs evil brawl, no-one died, and there was some good RP to back it up. Being chased around by dire wyvern's was quite scary as well, just incase whomever summoned them is watching

And in response to Dalvyn's post, no, it's not the same, we killed nothing, setting a pose and waiting for someone to walk in on you is different to walking into a temple and starting to beat the hell out of mobs.

Ed

Dalvyn · Post by **Dalvyn** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 7:39 pm

I think you misunderstood my question. It was more about: what is the expected IC reaction from those who live there?

If people come and slaughter mobs in a temple, the "defenders" of the temple can be expected to retaliate by killing the intruders in my opinion. Wouldn't the same reaction be expected from rangers in retaliation to people who killed animals "just for sport" or to people who set the forest on fire? That's what I meant when I said that these things might be seen as a call to pkill.

How the action is done should not matter, only what the action is : whether you do something through a smote, or a pose, or through actually killing mobs, this is only an OOC difference. So the question can be restated as follows: destroying the forest (by burning it) or slaughtering animals (for sport), isn't those "offenses" as serious to rangers as slaughtering mobs in a temple?

Edit (to try and be as precise as possible): Going to give other examples. Someone who would come into the House of Wonder, set a fire in front of the altar, and burn magic scrolls there would most likely be attacked on sight. Yet, it might only be a smote and the descrution of an object, but, to a Mystra, it is a serious crime (perhaps not as serious as burning a forest for a ranger or as killing someone). Another example: in an Oghmite temple (alignment: neutral), someone who would come in a library with the intention of burning the books would be most likely killed on sight, even though it is only done through smotes.

Zilvryn · Post by **Zilvryn** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 8:02 pm

Of course, obviously to be seen setting fire to a tree would be a massively aggressive action to a ranger, the reaction they gave was IC and it was (for me at least) a fulfilling and enjoyable RP.

Likewise, setting fire to a library in an oghman temple would also be an action that would lead to a fight more than likely.

My point, was more this:

Yes, I was attempting to set fire to the forest, but from an OOC perspective it was to induce some RP. Smoteing or setting a pose in a temple is a different matter, there are mobs there, and people around who would stop you straight away. A sparsely populated forest is a different matter. Once a ranger came in it was great (after getting eaten by wyverns).

Again, I may be waffling slightly, but bare with me...

All the rangers get some good RP out of it (I myself have a well known ranger, and I know that I get some good RP out of it, even though my ranger was not involved in the initial conflicts)..

They get to plot to hunt down the vile Daunyelle and slippery black robe wizard who drains the life of bears to make himself healthier... Tretch gets to impose his blatant superiority over everyone by single handedly (almost) destroying 6+ people before Daun or I could get a decent spell off, and I would hope that this would lead to more RP of the same, there wasn`t a single PK, just some nice RP and a few spars...

Works for me.

Again, it is different to killing mobs in a temple, because there would be no-one there to stop the aggressive action. The first person on the scene is a PC and as such it leads to RP.

Dalvyn · Post by **Dalvyn** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 8:58 pm

I was just reacting to the mention that people who started this roleplay were not out for the pkill. I can agree that this was perhaps not their primary objective, but, still, when you do something like setting fire to a forest intentionally, you know that the rangers won't let you go with just a word of warning not to do so again. So, from the initial roleplay, it was clear that the normal conclusion was pkill-related. There's nothing inherently wrong with it, mind you, but let's be honest and admit that the pkill conclusion was fortellable.

As a side note, the difference you point out between doing something like that near Ardeep, where there are some PCs, and killing mobs in a temple, is again an OOC once, while I was taking an IC point of view. It is not true that "there would be no-one there to stop the aggressive action" ICly; mobs would react en masse, they would call out for help, and that's what they do when an imm notices the slaughter.

From an IC point of view (where mobs and PC characters have the same status), both actions are similar: they both clearly lead to a pkill / fight to the death; that's what I tried to point out. In other words, you do not do that if you expect to roleplay only, with no recourse to pkill.

And, to go back to the topic of the initial post, if you really consider the situation ICly, I have no idea how a group of forest destroyers, no matter how powerful, could evade skillfull rangers, and trackers while fighting in their territory. Sure, the code might let you win, but the code would also let me take Dalvyn and slay all the mobs in a temple of Cyric. Is that really IC though? Wouldn't the priests, fighters, guards, and so on team up and chop him into fine pieces? I believe that's what Dargeth was talking about in his first post.

Basically, I think that most would agree that these actions create some fun roleplay, but that it could be better if some of the particular ranger abilities could be taken into consideration, even if that means bending the roleplay in a way that the code does not force upon you.

Zilvryn · Post by **Zilvryn** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 9:16 pm

Heh, seems now it's me thats being misunderstood

What I meant when I said that there was no-one around to report it is that on the outskirts of Ardeep there would just be a few scattered rangers (represented in my mind by PCs) and the mobs: bears, elves deeper in the forest, etc. where as in a temple there would be tens of people, worshipers, priests, guards, etc..

I appreciate the fact the IC mobs and PCs are the same, and yes, the actions taken by the initial people involved would suggest that a PK situation was fairly inevitable, but again, no-one died and there was some good RP.

I`m going to stop talking about this now, as I feel that we are just semi-arguing over small points, and as was just said, it is detractiing from the original post.

I agree totally with what Dargeth has said, people would not be able to evade rangers in their home environment, in the case mentioned above, they were not trying to, I think this harkens back to the case of "just because you can, doesn`t mean you should"... As Dalvyn said, the code may allow you to haze through a temple, but it wouldn`t really happen like that.

Tretch · Post by **Tretch** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:55 pm

Fist off....I called noone weak, but take it all as you may...

And just to clarify a few quick points I completely disagree with. Kidding really...

The load of rangers in the situation that seems to keep getting mentioned was much in part to an rp that was already happening in that area. I know this because it was mainly my doing. This led to the somewhat evil vs. evil bickering that soon followed because of how it all mashed together.

It was an IC misunderstanding that I had to force myself through. OOCly I knew exactly what was going on, but my RP basically forced my character to lash out.

Either way....thats alll pointless. Bottom line from me is that as an evil you just plain have to be ready at all times for something swinging to a pk type rp.

I cause it, the other side causes it. It happens most of the time from a general standpoint. People seem to get very touchy for what I see as no reason really. I may just look at it differently though.

Jake

I may have missed some specifics as I just quickly glanced (dont have much time) so....try not to pick it apart based on just that.

Telk · Post by **Telk** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:55 am

Going along with Dargeth's post I see it as if you are causing a fire underneath a oak tree in a forest that would have quite a few rangers, most likely a arrow would pierce your throat.

Zilvryn · Post by **Zilvryn** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:57 am

Indeed, and that was what happened.

Mele · Post by **Mele** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:02 am

I don't think Dargeth or anyone was saying they won't pierce throats. I think Dargeth was making a point that rangers are rangers. So rather than walking in a group of seven of them, maybe one could walk in and distract and a few could be hidden in other rooms in trees etc, shooting arrows with smotes, etc. Making actions which would anger another does not have to equate to code battle. :) I hope that is the point that was being made... if not, uh, I'm dumb. :)

Danica

Telk · Post by **Telk** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:28 am

Ah, I am stupid then ^.^

Tretch · Post by **Tretch** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 7:25 pm

i think main problem was that the battle itself was done poorly IMO. Next time in such a situation with large groups, I think that killmode spar is the main way it should go.

The massive flying of code was kind of a anitclimax to the RP.

could be wrong though...

Jake