Do rangers and druids have their place in cities?

Micheal · Post by **Micheal** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:33 am

Split from http://www.forgottenkingdoms.com/board/ ... php?t=3335

Amish (not from Amn but in real life) people don't make their kids be like them until they are old enough to choose the life and then choose the life. Amish kids ride bicycles, listen to music, and watch TV. Amish people are the closest thing we have to druids because Amish people live in forests and talk to animals. Druids, live it up while you can, just like your Amish cousins. But don't be surprised if you don't get IC help about a druid quest in a city, even if it is the only city in the realms with an on duty ranger.

Mele · Post by **Mele** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 6:00 pm

People who come to WD/Shadowdale/SM are not "children" anymore. They're of age to leave their parents, they're picking up their chosen path in life. If they fountain sit every day and go "hey. I'mma be a druid." If you're making a druid it should be because you WANT a forest dweller. So any living it up should be in the .. forest! :)

Danica

Kregor · Post by **Kregor** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 4:21 am

Although...

Druids of Chauntea worship the Goddess of Agriculture, much different than Druids who worship dieties like Mielikki.

Mielikki is a goddess of Forests and wildlife, who advocates mankind living in harmony with nature. Clear-cut cities and towns are an anathema to them, and anyone who seeks the faith would doubtfully be comfortable in such a setting.

Chauntea is the patroness of Agriculture, Plants cultivated by humans, farmers, gardeners and Summer. Farmers and gardeners often live in close proximity to cities, even just outside the walls of Waterdeep, there is IC farmland peppering the countryside (and vividly described in the room descs, thanks to someone's painstaking effort). In fact, those who live an agricultural lifestyle would be seen quite frequently in the cities on market days to play their goods. It may be a necessary evil to some who come from a more rural area, but they are there.

As a result, there are temples and ministers to Chauntea within the bounds of many cities, including Waterdeep, Shadowdale, and others. And most of Chauntea's followers would be in the farming towns and villages (like Hollow Hill and the like), rather than in forest glades. Therefore, the clergy would be where Chauntea's worshippers are, in these more developed areas.

Ursan · Post by **Ursan** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 11:10 pm

You make a fair point Kregor, and Micheal (in his own unique way) also.

I would point out though, that Forgotten Kingdoms is a little different to Forgotten Realms in how it deals with the priesthood of Mielikki and Chauntea.

In order to allow a Druid 'class' within the Mud, the priests of Mielikki and Chauntea were given a slightly different set of skills and prayers to other clerics.

In FR the faiths would include both priests and druids, on FK the priests are druids and vice versa. The Druid class in FR is very obvious in its requirements, just because it is recreated within FK in a slightly different manner does not mean that certain expectations should be dismissed.

My point, and likely Mele's also, was that with any other faith in the game, a player would be roleplaying and behaving in a manner which suited that end position of joining the faith.

To have Druids living in cities and wearing metal armour until they are faithed and then suddenly amending their playing style to suit new expectations just disappoints me a little.

I'll be the first to admit that I am a little dated in my opinions on this sort of thing. I started playing D&D over twenty years ago and still prefer the old-style way of looking at it. Rangers and Druids live and work outside of cities, Druids cant wear metal if they expect their prayers to be answered.

But anyway, if we want to continue this - I would suggest creating a thread within the Ranger class forum since we have answered already the original question about the quest.

Kregor · Post by **Kregor** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 11:38 pm

Aye... let's move the thread... I'm enjoying the discussion

Kregor · Post by **Kregor** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 6:58 am

I agree with you Ursan, on your basic point. I don't think that any player who wishes to be a druid should be armoring up, nor roaming freely about the city, acting totally at home and comfy, or preferring a suite at the Lucky Drunk to a quiet rural cabin. Especially if that char's RP is then totally reversed to be Tarzan.

Although, I do point out the differences in portfolio between the two coded dieties. Chauntea in the aspect of the Goddess of Agriculture would not be anti-civilization, though they would surely be out of their element inside the city walls save around the farmer's market.

I know that growing up in a rural farming area myself, the observations I made of those around me. By and large the people there were happy with their lifestyle. Sure there were times to "go to town" for trade, for purchasing other goods not made in the rural area. This time was taken advantage of to make the most of it, and few were they who wanted to be there for any extended period, save those who wanted to "leave this hick town." and get away to the city (I guess that would end up being me IRL) The former type would be the type that Chaunteans would come from, the latter would most likely not.

There were still aspects of "civilization" within these farming towns, even in historic times, there would be a community, small trading facilities, churches, even schools and central governing authorities in larger communities.

I realize that basically the FK team had to pick and choose whether each specialty priest would be *either* a cleric *or* a druid, because the priest is a single class, not allowing for there to be both. This *could* tend to narrow the scope of RP for those of the Chauntean faith.

There *is* a wilder aspect of Chauntea in the faith of the Earthmother, she is the older, primitive aspect of the goddess, in current era of Faerun left mainly in the Moonshaes. In the larger part of Faerun, she has released the wilder parts of the nature portfolio to other Gods (Mielikki and Silvanus included).

So, we could say that FK PC druids of Chauntea are, in fact, remnants of the Earthmother aspect, and leave it at that, and that the more contemporary portfolio of Chauntea is repesented in her priests, which a FK PC cannot be. Or we could just say, because of the FK limitations, the Chauntean druid is *the* specialty priest of the faith, and allow both aspects of the goddess to shine through in her roster of PCs.

I found an interesting link on the Faerun pantheon, which goes into the diversity and historic complexity of Chauntea quite in depth:

http://www.angelfire.com/empire2/faerun ... ea3rd.html

Talamar · Post by **Talamar** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 7:22 am

Just as a small note, and I know this probably isn't going to be popular BUT....

There is documented evidence that not ALL rangers are city hating, uncomortable in towns type of people. Belkram and Itharr of the Harpers are a good example. Both Harpers, Both Rangers, Both Followers of Mielliki. One's for Baldur's Gate, and the other from Westgate.

So, while I am a firm proponent of Rangers not loitering in WD MS all the time, I did want to point out, that you are forced to be city-phobic just because you want to follow the Forest Maiden.

Ursan · Post by **Ursan** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 10:27 am

Nothing to disagree with here so far:)

I should point out that I haven't actually said that rangers and/or druids should be specifically city-phobic. Ursan is known to visit from time to time and so are many others. Though druids in cities has been and I think, should remain, a much rarer event.

I like very much Kregor's suggestion for how to view the Chauntean faith.
No prizes for guessing that me the player and me the character would both plump for the far more primitive aspects of the portfolio.

Elwin · Post by **Elwin** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 8:32 pm

I'm gonna jump in here and say a few things about Mielikki. One of the biggest falsehodds about Mielikkan followers is that they are against civilisation. They aren't. Mielikki believes in a balance between the forests and cities. As opposed to Silvanus who is much stricter and believes that their is only nature. Many Mielikkan rangers live near villages and protect the village or township just as they do the forest they might live in. That is the main factor that makes Mielikki Neutral Good and Silvanus True Neutral. It is their differences over how they view cities.

Kregor · Post by **Kregor** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 1:54 am

Elwin wrote:I'm gonna jump in here and say a few things about Mielikki. One of the biggest falsehodds about Mielikkan followers is that they are against civilisation. They aren't. Mielikki believes in a balance between the forests and cities. As opposed to Silvanus who is much stricter and believes that their is only nature. Many Mielikkan rangers live near villages and protect the village or township just as they do the forest they might live in. That is the main factor that makes Mielikki Neutral Good and Silvanus True Neutral. It is their differences over how they view cities.

Agreed on Mielikki, of the wild dieties, she is arguably the least wild of them. Silvanus is far to the extreme of her, even to the point of saying that progress through agriculture is bad. (Pity Silvanus is not coded, for it could make for some interesting extremist druids and rangers). Being the daughter of Hanali Celanil, Mielikki got much of her nature from the elder Elves' concept of harmonious civilization -- development was made in harmony and balance with nature in elven cities like Myth Drannor and the other cities of Cormanthor. Though Mielikki still has some of her father Silvanus' nature, that would lead her to disdain overdevelopment or any type of harvesting resources that would damage the status quo of the wilds. And a huge, clear-cut city like Waterdeep would make most country boys quite uneasy.

Kregor · Post by **Kregor** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 1:57 am

Ursan wrote:Nothing to disagree with here so far:)

I like very much Kregor's suggestion for how to view the Chauntean faith.

Which, that we should limit it to the wilder Earthmother aspect, or that we should allow diversity within the spectrum of her portfolio, and have a few farmboys in the mix?

Dargeth · Post by **Dargeth** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 1:37 am

I agree with much that has been said. As I have said before, I have played rangers in D&D longer than I care to admit. And with that, have played rangers who follow Mielikki almost as long. Rangers are all different. And that comes out in how people choose to play them. Most rangers are similar to those who follow Mielikki, for she epitomizes what it means to be a ranger. She is the Supreme Ranger and their patron(matron?) as well. But rangers do come in different shapes and sizes. I have played a ranger who lived in a city. I have also played a desert ranger, and a swamp ranger. It all depends on how you want to play them. As those before have said, it pretty much comes down to picking a role playing style and sticking to it. Most rangers of Mielikki are going to patrol the wilderness, and live there as well, or live in a small town. Rangers of other deities i.e. Mystra, Torm, Chauntea in some aspects, and others, might live in larger cities. It does not mean they are not rangers per se, just that they are different from the the mold which most rangers are born.