Dual Wielding

Sparlow · Post by **Sparlow** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 12:57 am

Are there any plans in the future to alter the code for dual-wielding?

As far as I know, all you have to do is train the dual-wield skill. If you've ever seen the Dnd 3rd edition handbooks, you know that they figured it takes no less than three feats to make dual-wielding effective. I'm just curious if there are plans in the future to change that.

-Sparlow

Cret · Post by **Cret** » Tue Aug 26, 2003 7:11 am

I was under the impression anyone could dual wield with a -4 and -8 to hit penitaly one your weapon hands. With the dual wield skill it would chang it to ?-2 and -4? or there abouts.

Could this be changed? There for some certain Malarites could in truth be using both tooth and claw?

Urival · Post by **Urival** » Thu Aug 28, 2003 4:31 am

I may be wrong, but I beleave skill focus feat can be used on dual wield. Affectivily 3 feats dumped into this could make your dual wield jump considerably, so i think its already like the third edition way.
ryanC

Sparlow · Post by **Sparlow** » Fri Aug 29, 2003 8:50 pm

I guess what I'm driving at is the fact that EVERYONE seems to dual wield. It's not a decision to be taken lightly, dual wielding is exponentially more difficult than using a single blade (really, I've tried). The -10 penalty on the off hand is honestly NOT that unreasonable.

I guesss I was just wondering if we were going to make the process a little more realistic and difficult to attain.

-Sparlow

Stayne · Post by **Stayne** » Sat Aug 30, 2003 2:54 am

We actually had a rather long thread on the other board about this (I know since I started it

.
The end results was that everyone will prefer to dual wield for two reasons, firstly that you deal more damage, and secondly that if you GM the skill you get a benifit of wielding two long weapons (this to me is the best incentive - as its extremely powerful).
To counter this, bash was moved to being a shield only skill, which is actually more realistic. But still, the benifits of dual wielding are to good to ignore. As a side note, there are many players who use certain weapons and styles (Like, sword/shield or two handed weapons) for RP purpose rather than benifit and these people have my respect.
The only way we are going to see people try a different set of styles is to make them more balanced.
The bash thing was a good start, though I would love to see those who use two-handed swords, get some special skills or perhaps a feat to go with it. I would love to see the same type of things for those who use polearms. One of the best things about polearms is that you can often keep a person at a distance, and still do damage to them. A very workable skill or feat.
There is such a great variety of weapons out there that it is a shame we don't see people use them.

I would also love to see the offhand weapon for dual wield being able to be devoted to defence. A sai for eg. is used to catch blades and disarm opponets rather than stab them. As such its wield offhand with usually a blade to provide defence and opportunities. This is just one eg.

As always these things are up to coders and admin to do and I know that they are busy, and right now such small changes are not a high priority.
However keep the ideas flowing

Hope that helps
S

Dima · Post by **Dima** » Fri Dec 05, 2003 2:31 pm

I was wondering if there was any special ways to level up dual wielding...I have been dual wielding for a while and I have not seen it increase one time since I trained it...any help is appreciated.

You should find this out IC in the game.

Sharni

Sparlow · Post by **Sparlow** » Fri Dec 05, 2003 3:58 pm

Well, I seem to recall reading somewhere that using a two-hander doubled your str bonus with a weapon. Which makes sense, you're using both arms....as to the defense with sais, it's true, but not the absolute rule...you can use nearly any weapon for both defense and offense. Certain weapons would provide a defense bonus, though, if used properly....sais, main-gauches, nets, all come to mind.

Cyric · Post by **Cyric** » Fri Dec 05, 2003 6:27 pm

Using a two handed weapon adds 1.5 of your str modifier.

Also, in D&D, when you dual wield, you gain double attacks per round. However, there are not 5 attacks per round. I believe it's usually one on unhastened characters. That is why there is a massive -hitroll built in - So everyone won't twink it and wear two weapons for the double hits. Only the ones that can spare the feats for it (such as fighters specifically designed for such style of fighting).

Just my opinion.

Mingus · Post by **Mingus** » Fri Dec 05, 2003 8:38 pm

Well I maybe giving it awy, if this was the intent of the coders. But since I am not certain here goes anyway.

Couldn't the fighting command “Beat” be used in conjuction with certain weapons? I don't mean just those weapons but with an added bonus when you use a certain traping weapon. ie sai, nets, bill hooks, tridents ect. That when when wielded instead of just fending a weapon away, it actually traps it for a few rounds till the either the opponent rolls a high enough die or the duration runs out. Not a total disarm and not usable with and against all weapons but against a good number of them and different kinds of effect for each weapon versus another. eg Main-gauch for vs one handed swords; trident all but spikes and chains; net vs all but swords; ect ect.

Blug · Post by **Blug** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 6:08 pm

I used to sword and stick fight with my friends quite a bit, and I recall using two rotan sticks once. I found it quite easy, but then again I'm ambidexterous. The real trick is though, is that those in the group who tried using both of them, even with one of the shorter ones, usually wound up unable to even think of doing anything with the one in their off hand. I had practiced a bit on this and I'd gotten to the point where i could chain my attacks together, block with either hand, and still maintain enough concentration to dodge around and drive through the opponent's defense. My suggestion is this, maybe a feat, more than a skill, set to be learned within the first 20 levels or so or else it looses all effect, named "Equal Hands" or something, something that would mark the character as ambidexterous and capable of fully using two weapons. Without this, the off handed weapon could only be used for bonus on disarm, parry, and could be used with a second attack marker at most, even with grandmaster.

Cyric · Post by **Cyric** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 12:22 am

On Mingus's post - Beat is used to damage a weapon. I see you are leaning more towards a "weapon trap" skill, which I think parry meets the same end. And if you "trap" their weapon with your own, wouldn't you not be able to use yours as well?

However, you do bring up a point with certain weapons gaining bonuses with the beat skill. I can see a mace or polearm doing more damage than a dagger would.

On Blug's post - Remember that you were fighting with rotan sticks made of wood. Though I am unsure of how big they were (everyone has their prefrance on size because these are easily cut down and customized), they are significantly lighter than four feet of steel. Especially when the steel is a longsword and "unbalanced". Balance is a big factor in a sword and when wielding one in your off-hand, it becomes unwieldy and clumsy. However, there are those that can master the art of two weapon combat, I agree. I like the long time it takes to train the dual-wield skill to offset it's benifits, though.

Perhaps penalties should be applied if an amatuer (or journeyman? I dunno...) is trying to wear two weapons. With the ambidexterious feat, this penalty will be negated? Just thinking aloud =)

-- Cyric

Sparlow · Post by **Sparlow** » Sun Aug 08, 2004 12:28 am

If you look at most classical two-weapon combat styles, e.g. classical french style combat, combatants user a rapier and a main-gauche or long dagger to simultaneously parry and counterattack. Using a smaller weapon to open up defenses is extremely effective, which is what dual-weilding really intends, rather than simply bludgeoning your foe with two weapons.

If we could add in another feat or skill, e.g. Deflection, it could make it so that the off hand weapon can perhaps deflect an attack each round or keep an opponent from attacking.

While we're at it, parrry needs to do more in combat.

I think that's enough griping from me for one day.

-Sparlow

Zilvryn · Post by **Zilvryn** » Wed Aug 18, 2004 12:13 am

Even within the FR setting there are very few times when you see someone fighting with two long weapons...

Normally it is only Drow or a few Elven characters that have the natural dexterity required for the level of mastery required to wield say 2 longswords proficiently...

As Sparlow said, most dual-wielders stick with a sword/rapier and main-gauche/dagger/knife combination as it is very very difficult to fight with 2 longweapons at once...

I personally prefer a Longsword/Knife combination and that is what I am aiming for with Laerith...

I would also love to see the offhand weapon for dual wield being able to be devoted to defence. A sai for eg. is used to catch blades and disarm opponets rather than stab them. As such its wield offhand with usually a blade to provide defence and opportunities. This is just one eg.

If you have the feat "Expertise" you could set combatmode +defensive and reduce the penalty to hit while still getting the AC bonus that defensive combat gives you... I think this is sort of how Expertise is meant to work (forgive me if im wrong

).

I.E. if you were wielding 2 weapons without expertise you would not have the skill to have your hands working independantly of one another for offence and defence, where as with expertise you can defend with one hand and attack with the other... It just elevates a good swordsman from a great one in my mind....

Sorry if thats a bit of a rant, but I was thinking about the mechanics of dual-wield earlier on and was about to post something similar to Sparlows initial post before I saw this thread...

E

Alaudrien · Post by **Alaudrien** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:59 pm

I am actually surprised that you can use two long weapons when you have Gmed dual wield. They had a skill or feat called ambidexterity in the DnD handbooks for those who are skilled and dexterous enough to dual wield two longer weapons. But some none elven people could practice and gain enough skill or become good enough to use two long weapons not just elves. Even though elves are naturally fast for there slim frames. Just takes practice imho

Thx!

Dual Wielding

Dual Wielding

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