Spot

[Glim]

Skill: Spot -

Automatic: Every so often (every 30 seconds maybe) you make a spot check against a hiding character's hide check, if your check is higher than theirs, they are revealed to you, but just you.

This skill would kinda make it so that those who arent thieves or halfelves or a caster type with detect hidden has a chance of noticing hidden characters. It would be kinda like listen and move silently.

[Isolrem]

Rarely would the hidden stay hidden for thirty seconds if he means to do something malignant. It could be like search (i.e.. whenever one walks into the room, and whenever one feels like doing it)

[Gwain]

How about calling it spotcheck instead of spot? that sounds so much like a pet name, No offense.

[Glim]

Rofl, Gwain.

Spot is just what they call it in 3rd Ed D&D.

[Glim]

In response to Isolrem, every thirty seconds I would think would be a reasonable amount of time to make 1 or 2 checks for a certain action and if the thief has anything longer to do, then it allows for those checks as well.

Perhaps it could also be whenever someone who is sneaking and hiding walks into the room, if your spot succeeds, they are revealed to you. They would stay hidden to everyone else, but would have a (hide) flag for yourself.

[Alaudrien]

ah but if you have the listen skill and hear someone sneak in then you would know someone is here but you cannot see them.. You could easily then if you wanted to search for them...just my opinion ^-^

[Glim]

True, you could RP searching for them and saying that they are there. But if the said thief wanted to, they could just stay hidden and you wouldnt have a chance of finding them.

Too bad, I dont think the search skill reveals hidden, either.

[Alaudrien]

ah then it should! -peers- but could be depending on skill level of search vs..hidden chars skill at hide /level.?

[Kregor]

No, search will not reveal a hidden char. Search is a function that allows finding traps, concealed doors, etc., not for countering stealth.

Actually, bringing the 3rd ed. spot skill could be a good addition to the game, adding a little more flexibility to stealth and those who would detect it. If we changed the code to where hidden and invis chars emotes and actions didn't local echo, then we would avoid a lot of the common RP snafus of

:::someone sits and relaxes:::
"Who's there?!"
"Hey, I'm hidden and flying, you can't see me"
"Yeah I can"
"No you can't"

You get the picture. It would no longer be an RP issue because you just can't see the action at all (short of a failed hide/sneak check)

If hidden actions and emotes didn't local echo, they could require a spot check against the hidden char's hide check, in the same way listen checks against sneak. Every time the hidden char does something (sit, stand, emote, etc.) would force a spot vs. hide check. Also another check every turn (about 30 seconds in FK sounds good to me) regardless of what is he does. If someone's spot check succeeds, they alone see the echoes of the hidden person's actions, what they do with that knowledge is their business.

The difference between this and discern would be that discern is an all-or-nothing skill that thieves and half-elves can possess, as long as they are discerning, anything and everything hidden is revealed to them. Spot would be only against someone else's stealth, always on, like listen, and requires a skill check.

In tabletop, I believe spot is also an everyone skill (in FK terms, everyone would get 1 level of Spot in other skills known.) This could improve with use, and certain classes (It's a class skill in 3E, I believe, for rogues, rangers, and barbys??) could train it up.

[Cyric]

An addition: Whomever said flying made you completely silent while entering and exiting an area? I'd have to look that up in my PHB (which is at home ><), but I'm unsure Flying grants complete stealth.

I'm pretty sure a Boeing 747 is able to take flight, but if one is 10 feet away from it, by god, they'll hear it.

[Yonna]

Cyric, I have a feeling that if you had massive engines coming out of your sides, you'd make a bit of noise as well, no?

Anyways, The way I have always rped it, flying would give you a bit more stealth than just simply walking, but, there is still the fact of sight and smell. It all depends on the rper I would think.

[Gwain]

this always confused me, when you fly do you levitate only higher or do you sprout wings and/or produce a jetstream?

[Isolrem]

I think no physical changes take place in all three spells:
Levitate, Fly, Ethereal Flyer

Levitate is to defy gravity, so that your body seems lighter and therefore floats

Fly is to use magical energy (most likely not a very loud one) to propel the bodice in flight

Ethereal Flyer I'm not very sure about, I think perhaps a portion of the body and the majority of the weight is passed into another plane?

[Kregor]

There's also other things that invis and flight to not afford you stealth-wise: My favorite is someone flying invis into Ardeep (or any other wooded area) and thinking they are being totally undetectable.

This is, as I see it a totally unrealistic expecation. Anywhere you see the little "f" or "F" in the wilderness map, or green in the VT map, you should figure on it being densely wooded, trees close together, etc. So many factors would play against total stealth in this case: leaves rustling, bumping branches on your way into the room, etc., especially city folk flying their way into the forest. Ranger stealth works in these environments (and in FK, only in these environments) because the ranger is trained to move stealthily in the brush and grass, and to avoid branches and other obstacles.

Even outside of Woods, there are other ways to consider flying and invis not foolproof stealth: Body odor, a flapping cloak or other loose fitting garment, the air disturbance as you walk by someone, etc. I bet that many people, if blindfolded and ears muffled, would still be able to tell if someone passed by them at a normal walking speed.

No, you wouldn't be able to see their actions and smotes, which is why spot could be valuable, to be able to actually have a chance to see what a stealthy person is doing. And for those who feel that someone flying should not be automatically realized, making all these actions not local echo for invis and stealth chars, and making it dependent on spot would end the arguments.

But chances are, many people WOULD have a really good chance of perceiving someone not specifically trained in stealth entering a room, one way or another.

[Exer]

Wouldn't it all depend on how high and fast the person is flying? One senario would be for the flyer to be above the trees/houses, spot someone then slowly float down.

[Alaudrien]

Actually it depends on a case by case thing. Some races/classes tend to be sharper of eyes like rogues and rangers...they have a sharp observation while mages at times seem to have a sixth sense towards things..but true being high in the air could easily attract or not attract notice

[Hviti]

I kinda doubt that being a mage would give you a sixth sense...rogues don't automatically get a sixth finger, fighters don't get a extra bands of muscles, priests don't looks like the diety they want to follow, etc.

...but if so, what would it be?

Would it be a vibration of the weave with life nearby (ala I sense a disturbance in the force...sorry, just had to )?

Would it be just residue from all those detection spells making their eyes sharper?

Would it be magic just 'tingling'?

Would it be peering at books through the night ruining your vision but letting you know when the servant comes in with a cup of tea just by 'feel'?

[Alaudrien]

HAH! I didn't mean they had one just that some mages are going to be very sensitive to the weave (hah funny starwars thingy) than others. Ala elminster etc...but other non magisters ya know? While some not so in tune with it. Sorry if I was unclear ^-^

[Telk]

I could see a person invis and flying in a wilderness room, roads, plain being able to go by undetected. I could definetely not seeing someone saying "Hey, someone's here" when there is wind blowing in a wilderness room, or it is raining; and more often then not, even if it was a windless day and someone flew by, I think that the person would just dismiss the thought as a breeze (however some may be able to detect it for what it truly is)

Going with Kregor's idea...if your levitating, which is only a few inches to a few feet above the ground, you'd most likely be heard, unless you were very stealthy. Flying I think you could get away with it, flying above the treetops, as long as you don't collide with a bird.

[Kregor]

Noting in the 3.5E source doc, spot is also a skill that checks vs. disguise.