Heave skill

Leyva · Post by **Leyva** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 3:03 am

I had an idea for a skill the other day... albeit it`s not a very good idea, I thought I might as well throw it out anyway. It would be called heave, or something to that effect, and it would be used much like hide, sneak, etc. where you use it, and always get an echo of "you flex your muscles" (well, that sounds pretty dumb, but you get the idea) but only get an echo of "you feel like you can lift something heavy" if the skill is sucessful. What the skill would do would be to give you a very temporary boost in carry weight. This would be useful in lots of situations... one that comes to mind is picking up a corpse to give to your mount. anyways, that`s all.

Serge · Post by **Serge** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 3:54 am

This is KIND of on the same topic, so I thought I'd pitch it.
Would it be possible to pick up characters? Not corpses, but characters, perhaps who have been wounded, or tired? It would take exceptional strength, but I think it would be interesting. There has to be, of course, a way to resist/deny getting carried. Gimme some ideas on this, as well as the above of course

Serge

Mele · Post by **Mele** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 5:23 am

Characters can mount other characters, if they are smaller. :) Mounted doesn't have to necessarily mean piggy-back like, it could mean held. The mounting other characters is coded by race. :)

Heave, to me, sounds like bulls strength for non magic users. Who would get heave? Is it really logical for 'weaker' classes to be able to heave? Or, smaller people. Mele is under five feet, and barely 100 pounds. I logically cannot see her getting a higher strength and carryweight without the help of magic. :) Pardon me for using myself as an example. ;) And, is it completely necessary to have a skill like that coded, which is not exactly light work, when people can cast bulls strength? :)

~Danica

Gratey · Post by **Gratey** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 5:47 am

I dont think that the heave idea is so bad I mean There should be somthing like that and it would come in handy I think the fighters and barbarians should use it What are wizards going to do with it they shouldnt wear much weight any way and you should have to be a certain level to learn it not a low level but a high level and is very hard to find to train it

Cherishinar · Post by **Cherishinar** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 7:06 am

Carry weight has recently been increased dramatically so that a human's max strength allowed is 360 without any bonus from spells or items. If you are trying to get a corpse onto a horse you can move packs from yourself to the horse and take packs off the corpse and store them on the horse then pick the corpse up and put it on the horse. Most of the races are relatively lightweight and with carry weight increased most will be able to manage. If you can not, call on a mage or priest to use bulls strength thats the point of meeting people and making IC friends.

I looked through the players handbook and did not see any skills or feats that would grant any extra ability to carry things. To add this to fighters would only mean they would use it constantly to gain the extra benefits of higher strength for combat.

Stayne · Post by **Stayne** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 7:56 am

I am going to be harsh here when I say that Heave, is not a very good idea. Excluding the easyiness to abuse, it is also very much a anti-RP skill.
No-one suddenly gets a boost of strength for no reason when doing a menial task.
Try and think about what your charecter would do normal. If you can't pick something up, could it be because you are wearing a ton of plate armour?

Or perhaps carrying a pack loaded with down with items. Anyone normally would put their pack down, or do something to lighten their load before picking something up. In the case of a corpse, if it is still too heavy, what would a normal person do? They would strip the corpse of its items to make it lighter and move it that way. If you cannot do it yourself, then you get help from others. (comments re: bulls strength)

I am repeating comments by Mele and Cheri here, but I wanted to point out that anytime you can't do something. Don't look for a skill or a spell to make it easier, RP it. This is an RP mud and even doing something as small as moving a corpse, can lead into not only some great RP, but also adventures!

Finally - Keep making those corpses

S

Rhelian · Post by **Rhelian** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 10:02 am

http://pub88.ezboard.com/fforgottenking ... D=69.topic

Same idea, different stat. Any idea such as the one proposed is an extremely bad one, for many of the reasons stated in that thread, and this one here.

Mikhail · Post by **Mikhail** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 3:29 pm

Actually, that link is not appropriate because this proposed skill is not a parallel to the one that Lyle mentioned. The effect is the same, ie a temporary boost in a stat, but limber makes sense and is a proven technique used by many people before serious workouts and sports participation.

Still, I have to say no on heave.

-Mik

Exer · Post by **Exer** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 3:56 pm

With the limit increased, I see no reason to have this skill. Why not RP and bring a few friends along to share the weight?

Besides, as Mele mentioned, it would be silly to see a 5 foot character carrying a large six foot person. Not to mention all the strain and problems it will add to your back

On this note, how much do character weigh in general?

Mingus · Post by **Mingus** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 5:44 pm

The limit increase was general accross the board. Yet I had one PC that went down in strength, I always saw him with 18/00 strength before. So in the creation process the stats selections give random results, or was that PC stats goofed in the upgrade?

Andreas · Post by **Andreas** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 5:36 pm

I feel that something along the lines of the proposed "heave" skill would not be a good idea. There is more to carrying a heavy object than just its weight. I can easily heave a compact 94-pound bag of concrete from the ground up to my shoulder (ye olde power lifter technique) but change that into a 94-pound child and it becomes a whole new ball game. Leverage accounts for a great deal when trying to lift heavy objects.

I have to admit that the height/weight bit when I created this character really cracked me up... not giving away IC info here, but medically, he should be dead or close to it. Technically, he should weigh almost twice as much as it states on the character sheet. I gave it some thought and roleplayed around it with him being gawky and skinny at first as a young (16) man when first created. Time passed, I trained the character's strength and roleplayed that he essentially filled out with muscle. I do wish that I could have the base weight changed and that when a PC trains strength, it would increase the character weight to reflect the added muscle mass.

One thing I miss from table top is the ability to use the combined strength of one or more characters. While a single PC might not be able to pick up a heavy object, two or even three PCs working together with a combined strength could do it.

However, I still don't see a halfling, or even a few of them, picking up ye olde fallen knight and THEN heaving his dead weight up all the way onto the back of a horse!

Leyva · Post by **Leyva** » Sun Sep 07, 2003 12:56 am

Woah, sounds like people didn`t like my idea... well, I said it wasn`t all that good in the beginning. But maybe... maybe some of you misunderstand. I was thinking it would be a skill that would work like this: take a real life situation, for example: you need to move a bookshelf or some other big piece of furniture from one location in a room to another. Now, normally, you couldn`t take that bookshelf and, say, benchpress it, but you could pick it up and move it small distances. This is what I invisioned with the Heave skill. It would have no effect(affect?) on your actual strength stat, so I don`t see how it could be open to abuse during a fight. It would do nothing more than give you an extra, say 50-100 pounds of carry weight and put Hea in your affected list for a very short time. I don`t think its too impractical... but I do understand how you could say it's an anti-RP skill. If you look at it from a different point of view, though, it could be beneficial to RP. Say, a player wants to RP their character as being afraid of magic. You wouldn`t want to ask someone to cast Bulls Strength on that character. Or maybe you don`t want to call the only mage or priest you know from across the continent, as a trip like that would, in reality, take many days, whereas in the game it only takes a few minutes. I don`t know. I guess with the addition to carry weight, we don`t need this skill. Just my thoughts.

Mingus · Post by **Mingus** » Sun Sep 07, 2003 5:34 am

I think what andreas was getting at was what the PH(if I remember correctly) stated about encumberance. that you could easily move in a 150 Lbs suit of fitted armor but a rolled 100 Lbs 15 foot persian rug was more the wieght of a 200 cause it was cumbersome to move around.

Here's a suggestion, add the extra carring cap for that instance, not a duration like a spell and not shown in affects. Not being able to move from room to room while carring the extra weight, so the only thing you can do is put the extra cargo in a cart or on a mount/pet. Think of an Olympic heavy lifter, when they are in competition and lifting there limit and trying to go beyond, they don't move around much when they lift the wieghts. If they do take a step or two, they usually loose their balance and drop the wieghts. Afterwards and here's the drawbacks to heave. You will not be able to lift more than half of your normal carring cap for a short duration afterwards till you recover, your stamina is halfed in that instant. And you may act like you're drunk( the endorphins running through you) so you may fall down a lot, slam in to walls and just too pooped(tired) to think straight(No casting and using skills/trades)

Selune · Post by **Selune** » Sun Sep 07, 2003 6:34 am

Sudden and intense heaving (as in the case of weightlifters) carries with it a significant risk of serious injury - particularly for the untrained. A chance of failure and injury would need to be applied, as would the accompanying stat decreases for strength, dexterity, and con if injured while attemping to heave. Mages, priests, and rogues would have a much greater chance of being injured as they are not 'in practice' as are fighters or rangers.

Effects and coding issues aside, given the new base carry weights and the availability of bulls strength, I don't see a need for 'heave'.

~Selune~

Stayne · Post by **Stayne** » Sun Sep 07, 2003 8:39 am

Even though the shift of an item a small distance in RL, or RP'ing a fear of magic and stuff are RP, the whole concept is actually anti-RP. Let me explain. Using the real life example of say, wanting to move a fridge up 4 flights of steps. This cast iron monstrosity weighs a tonn (not lieterally), and is quite bulky. I could immitate heave and get myself a stair-trolly, and RP moving the fridge, one stair flight at a time. But instead I rang up four of my mates, got them over to help me move the fridge upstairs, then reward them with a bear and we sat around chatting for a bit.
That is the idea of RP, and of FK I believe. Any skill that can assist a charecter doing an action themselves, without other charecter interaction, I tend to view as anti-social.
Perhaps I am harsh though as in RL I can call someone, but on the mud - if there are only 3-4 players on, it can be impossible to do the action, and such a skill would be a boon. Then again, I see no action that would be important enough to warrant such a thing.

Leyva · Post by **Leyva** » Sun Sep 07, 2003 10:33 am

Allright, Stayne. I understand what you mean better now, and frankly, I agree with you. Those are some good points you put forth.

Mele · Post by **Mele** » Sun Sep 07, 2003 5:20 pm

Rofl, this might be my temperature speaking(Down to 101 this morning!). But suddenly, with heave, all I can think is, *during a battle* I need this extra strength to heave my opponents head into my knee! *use heave*

Hee hee hee.

~Danica

Heave skill

Heave skill

Heave skill/carrying people

RE: Heave and PC Weight