Changing the process of dwellings

[Waukeen]

Hi folks .

Recently, the imms and Newbie Council had a discussion about changing the process of how characters obtain dwellings. We covered a few things and would like some feedback, if you guys would give some . Here are some ideas we covered, among other things:

- One consideration is to lower the cost of dwellings. The current cost is easily obtained and encourages twinking to gather coins rather than RPing; however, a cost should still be kept to reflect that a dwelling is a special thing, and for IC purposes.

- We considered a type of reward system involving people OOCly vouching for whether or not someone deserves a dwelling considering what they have contributed to the mud; however, this led to problems concerning OOC friends and/or cliques that could vouch for someone whether or not they deserved a dwelling.

- Dwellings could be a reward system based on how much one has contributed to the game.

- Dwellings could be built based on finding people ICly to do the work that is involved with building a house, such as archetects, woodcutters, etc.

- A council of people could decide on who should and should not receive a dwelling.

Those are the types of ideas that were discussed. Please feel free to give your feedback, and any suggestions, questions, concerns, etc.

[Dugald]

I think there should be different tiers of dwellings....like a comittee of players who want to write the descriptions for dwellings that eventually get put into the game, and that group of people decide the hovel is worth 5 platinum in the marshes of the dead - and the hilltop villa on Oman's Isle is worth 1200 platinum.

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And then I think there should be a handful of immortals who all can give the "ok" for someone to own a dwelling. Waiting for councils and such to vote can slow things down considerably - and if one of the imm's/admins don't like the idea of a character having a dwelling (because of poor rp or lack of effort in the game to learn anything) then they can just post on the imm board on reasons not to allow so and so.

That way any imm/admin can ok it, and no single imm can deny it (spare you lovely admins).

I think that way would speed things up, and then a pc can't say "I didnt get the dwelling because Shiva's player hates my guts!". They'd have to stew in the festering knowledge that every imm thinks they don't need one....mwuahahahahahaa

[Telk]

I really like the whole idea, but I don't think their should be tiers of people doing descriptions etc. I think that all descriptions should be done by the owner, as well as any other stuff. I'd agree with a council, although I can see things getting a little biased. I'd definitely like to see people RPing architects, woodcutters etc. about building a house, but I don't think that that should be mandatory, because there might not be too many people RPing those types of chars. I'd definitely like to see that avenue of RP opened up though, building dwellings

[Caelnai]

I do like the idea of IC processes for building the house (finding builders, &c.) But why not quests with appropriate mobs? The build will have to go through the builder imm in the end anyway which can serve as a sanity check. (And before anyone asks; yes, I volunteer to write the quests.)

I prefer Dugald's thought about imms vetoing a dwelling over PC councils voting "who is worthy". I already see players who don't know a lot of people on the game (or aren't linked up via IM) being excluded from some RPs. I'm sure a lot of it isn't intentional (people just naturally favour their friends,) but this whole voting thing seems like a popularity contest to me. A lot of the rewarding systems that have been discussed recently really favor the people hanging around MS during prime time. I'm glad that MS RP is finally being rewarded, but other PCs who are drow or stay out of cities (or log in odd hours) should have opportunities for rewards, skill advances, and dwellings as well.

If involving other PCs, I also think it's better to designate groups of PCs to ask IC for building permits within specific areas (like Waterdeep) or for stores and the like. (Any of the group could ok it in-game, so if someone goes inactive it doesn't bring the whole process to a standstill.) Other dwellings (such as a druid's in a forested area) could have a different processes (and different groups of PCs) which are more appropriate to that locale.

I also agree the dwelling fees might reflect the differences. I know my dwarf could easily afford the current dwelling fee...but my ranger will never have that much coin, nor would it be IC for her to horde it. Logically, a shop in a major city should cost more than treehouse (aside from the room charge.) However, room descriptions should really be left to the player. (Within reason, of course.)

edit - spelling

[Jharthyne]

A kismet requirement will make sure that players applying for dwellings have put enough time and effort into playing the game, and at the same time is doing it through good rp (instead of just logging in for hrs on end to gain kismet).

The deities can be called to decide upon applications. If two or more deities agree that a player has done enough to deserve a dwelling, the application should then be approved. No need for all deities to vote (which could become a lengthy process).

[Rhytania]

I like the idea of using Kismet for dwellings. It gives those of us who really dont have a want for 50 special unique characters to put some of that kismet to good use. Id say have a high overall kismet check, but only burn some of it, maybe 200 - 300 kismet per room? This will help offset the cost for those PCs who dont go grinding for coin, and still give them a fair shot at having a dwelling.

[Ninde]

Personally I would like to see more dwellings and player based shops etc. I believe it will add greath depth to the game, for RP basis.
I believe imms should decide over when someone applicates for it. I could be more than one person, I believe, so it can avoid the concerns about OOC friendships and such as you mentioned above.

My character is trying to save coins for dwellings, for example. But, as a pretty new player still, compared to other long term roleplayers, I can say that clearly; going to somewhere and slashing mobs makes you gain less coin than the time when I first started playing. So, just a simple dwelling with one room and one storeroom, without any guardings of spells or such, costs 1500 platinums (correct me if I am wrong)..And it takes so much time to gather up that amount of coin, so I would like to see some discount upon dwellings personally. Perhaps a way of banking would work out too, like loaning coins for dwellings, and pay some amount of it per year/month.

Just my ideas, thank you.

[Lerytha]

I think all the ideas above are brilliant ideas. However, I would recommend that we have... tiered dwellings?

For instance:

A mage's tower of marble, with 10 rooms and ICly very richly appointed, etc, could require OOC "vouching", higher cost in coins, as well as the other requirements mentioned above, to the highest degree.

A small hovel in the middle of the Westgate slums, however, with one room, could require just a certain level of kismet and some cost for the dwelling.

Dugald touched on this earlier, but I just wanted to make the point that as well as IC cost being lowered/highered for location/size of dwelling, the OOC requirements could be lowered/highered.

~Ol

[Algon]

I like the idea of making sure a player has a good amount of kismet as a starting point of the process. I also like the idea of dwellings becoming kind of a reward for longterm RP with a character.

I think the best way to go is kind of a mix between two of the ideas. Have a council of say like 10 players. 5 who are known for their good characters and 5 who are known for their evil characters. That way atleast a couple of them will know and have rped with the applicant.
This council will talk about the applicant and decide weither or not they believe they diserve one. After a decision is made the council will share their thoughts with a group of say three IMMs who are assigned the dwelings overseeing. Then the IMM group will look it over and make the final decision.

With about 13 people giving info and making decisions I dont see how it will turn into a "He doesnt like me" thing. Since one persons vote isnt going to sway the whole process. Chances are if there are several who think that the character doesnt diserve one then there is a good reason .

I like the idea of having to RP searching out people to help with a dwelling...but the problem comes is there may not be many players around who would like to do that. Nobody wants their characters to be be getting tells every five minutes saying "Hey, I want to build a house can you help?"

my two cents
Jeff

[Lerytha]

Oh, another idea.

Maybe making it easier to gain approval for dwellings, maybe make it far, far cheaper too, for dwellings in places other than Waterdeep. This would help to move player's RP to other locales, and if good PCs moved to Shadowdale, for instance, there could be interaction between evils from the Keep and them.

Just a thought.

[Lathlain]

I like a lot of the ideas above, but I'd be inclined towards a combination. I believe a kismet cost is the way forward - Definitely a cost rather than a requirement. I'd say something like 300 kismet as a first sum for a 2-room house, and 50 kismet for each room beyond that. The physical cost should be dependant on the type of property it is, and there should definitely be cheap, affordable hovels.

I also approve of the council idea. I'd be inclined towards having a council of varied character type to speak for each area, and to enforce various planning policies for each area. Gothic castles in Waterdeep should be few and far between, and Zhentil Keep treehouses are a big no, for example!

[Penryn]

Oh, another idea.

Maybe making it easier to gain approval for dwellings, maybe make it far, far cheaper too, for dwellings in places other than Waterdeep. This would help to move player's RP to other locales, and if good PCs moved to Shadowdale, for instance, there could be interaction between evils from the Keep and them.

Just a thought.

agreed, places besides Waterdeep and much much cheaper as well


I would make the suggestion of doing this instead of having folks vouche and all. I think vouching is a very very bad idea.

1 is someone has a strike or two (whatever imms feel) they cant get one.

2. someone should have the Charater on the mud for a year irl at least to know that they wont just go poof.

3. make it so that the amount of kismet is in ratio with the cost.

It costs X amount (just say 100 plat a room)
For ever 50 kismet it lowers it by 10 per room perhaps.
It would make it so folks that have higher kismet, and dont spend it on just making alts, could use it for a dwelling and others that dont live for kismet or perhaps spend it on RP awards for others wont be penalized really.


Those are my few suggestions there. I really believe that it should be a time limit to start, cheaters shouldnt profit when otehrs will be waiting, and then the cost ratio.

I would also say drop the cost alot, and make it Cheaper to build it in places not in Waterdeep/Zhentil Keep. Because we want the playerbase spread out more and all anyways.

Also of course limit 1 per account

[Lea]

I don't think limiting one dwelling per account is the best way to handle that. Maybe only let one character per account use the kismet to get the cost deduction because there are some people who have more than one character with over 1000 hours and they have worked hard to get the kismet and money earned to build a dwelling as well.

[Penryn]

I don't think limiting one dwelling per account is the best way to handle that. Maybe only let one character per account use the kismet to get the cost deduction because there are some people who have more than one character with over 1000 hours and they have worked hard to get the kismet and money earned to build a dwelling as well.

true, that makes sense the limit of 1 per account perhaps is wrong then indeed. Just should be a limit so folks with upteen million characters on their account wont just keep making new characters and new buildings for them.

[Lea]

That is where the other ideas come into play that the character has to be around for so long (perhaps rl or hours played) and have to give something to the game rp wise and have to be approved by whatever manner is decided upon. Be it other players or imms or however that works.

But I would like to point out just as a reminder any problem players such as players with a strike will still not be able to build a dwelling until the strike is removed.

[Lerytha]

Could there be consideration of an option to allow characters to pay for dwellings with glory and kismet rather than platinum? For instance, an elven druid might construct a dwelling in Cormanthor. But who would they pay? An elven druid could count on the support of elven artisans to spell the trees to form buildings, or various other allies. None of these would ask for payment, but nor would they do it for an unknown druid.

Glory could represent this. Glory, being the repute of your character bringing workers to your side to help you build a dwelling, regardless of payment. It would give another use to glory, and help you feel as if your adventurer truly is famous throughout the Realms.

Just another thought. Sorry, they keep coming.

[Charissa]

Ideas are always good.

And I like your thinking Lerytha. I too, like the idea of glory/kismet, but maybe have a combination of kismet and coin together though. Just a slightly lowered coin cost if kismet is required as well.

I as well, like the idea about finding people icly to do the work that is involved with building the dwelling. It would encourage more exploration and rp. Maybe even have these architects, woodcutters, ect. have the character do a small quest before they will help them.

Dwellings being a reward system based on how much one has contributed to the game are also a good idea, in my opinion. You give a little you get a little. It would be a good way to have characters being more involved and surely help the mud expand.

[Raona]

Would it be beyond the pale to allow the cost of a dwelling be based on an interchangable currency of sorts, something like:

1 dwelling point = 10 kismet = 50 platinum = 1 glory

or something along those lines? That way people could "pay" for a dwelling in an IC way, coin if they are rich, glory if they are reknown, kismet if they are active in the community/a long-time resident?

I think it would be nice if folks like druids, paladins, monks, and others for whom hoarding coin is taboo could have a path to a dwelling, be it a home in a tree, a room in the fortress, or a cubicle in the Monastery. These might be relatively austere, but IC appropriate, and still able to serve the role of storing things and providing a home base for a given PC.

[Harroghty]

I'd like to piggy back off something said in the last post. Having a place for characters to store belongings would be nice. Storage space inside of other buildings could be offered for a lowered cost while actual structures would still be difficult (or just more difficult) to get into.
To reference another MUD: some groups (guilds, social houses, etc) had a locker room of kinds inside their facilities where members could store things. It consisted of a couple of booths (actual game rooms) where you could enter and store your belongings. There were maybe only three or four booths but the game recognized the character on entering. FK doesn't have the same kind of system of social houses but maybe temples could offer this for the faithful or there could be some kind of public storage for a fee in the major cities?

[Ninde]

I'd like to piggy back off something said in the last post. Having a place for characters to store belongings would be nice. Storage space inside of other buildings could be offered for a lowered cost while actual structures would still be difficult (or just more difficult) to get into.
To reference another MUD: some groups (guilds, social houses, etc) had a locker room of kinds inside their facilities where members could store things. It consisted of a couple of booths (actual game rooms) where you could enter and store your belongings. There were maybe only three or four booths but the game recognized the character on entering. FK doesn't have the same kind of system of social houses but maybe temples could offer this for the faithful or there could be some kind of public storage for a fee in the major cities?

Correct me if I am wrong, but all dwellings are required to have a storeroom. That means you have a place that you can store your belongings.