Spell Research

[Orplar]

Is this option still available after the new mana system? Perhaps some entirely new spells, or just ones that havent been hard coded into the game yet.. Or given trainers..We could still have characters spend time researching them and such, with the added benefits of GM at that spell and being the only trainer for them for a short while.

[Dalvyn]

You can still roleplay researching a spell. You can also - though there is no guarantee that it will work - apply for a roleplay where your character would research a particular spell (especially one that has no trainer yet), but that would most likely be a long roleplay.

As for signature spells (spells created by and named after level 50 wizards), there is currently no plan to do more of those. Here are a few reasons why:

- The system used before did not make much sense and was not compatible with the DnD spell allocation. For example, Summer (mage of Tymora) roleplayed researching the spell "Freedom", and Eltsac (mage of Mystra) roleplayed researching the spell "Fear". Both those spells are granted to some clerics too; for example, Freedom (of movement) is a base cleric spell that priests of Beshaba can cast. Similarly, Fear is a domain spell for some evil clerics (I think for Cyric's, though I'm not sure - but that's just a small detail). And it clearly made no sense to see a priest of Beshaba cast a spell called "Summer's freedom", named after a mage of Tymora. Just like it would make no sense to see a priest of Cyric cast a spell named "Eltsac's fear", named after a mage of Mystra.

- Another reason is file access. The system requires new spells to be coded, added to the file with the spell descriptions, and added to another file where all the flags usable in areas are stored. Currently, only Mask has access to those two files, and I don't think he wants to be bothered with having to modify those two files on a regular basis. Anyway, it's not very practical.

- Finally, now that dozens of new spells have been added (and will be given to trainers), getting more spells in the game is not as critical as it was before.

[Cret]

I have to ask, sence its for me..

What about spells that were researched. Application accepted. Coded (inpart) And just waiting to be given the spells. Im not complaining, but as of 2 years ago I was under the impressions it was happing. If not, well there are plenty of spells now to learn. Just kinda wishful for something like that.

[Dalvyn]

Well, since most old applications sit in a rarely checked mailbox on someone's computer right now, the information has most likely been lost.

Yet, instead of adding trainers for some of the new spells, we might consider give one of them to some of the often-played high level wizards and task them with spreading the knowledge (teach/scribe/...). It's just an option though, there has been no discussion about it.

[Tavik]

Frankly, I like the thought of tasking some of the high level characters with spreding the new spells. It encourages great RP, and people still have the oportunity to, in one sense, research, learn and teach their own spells. Now it may not be THEIR personal spell, but there is still a bit of prestige in being the only one capable of teaching a certain spell. This could still work like the old system where the player is GM'd at the spell and given a set amount of time (I believe it was a rather long length of time) to go around and teach people, before a mob was set that could teach it. Personally, I've ALWAYS enjoyed learning things from other players instad of the tradition give mob coin, get new spell/skill/whatever. A lot more Rp is involved which is, of course, the goal if this MUD. Furthermore, players become more educated on these spells. For instance, everyone (or almost every wizard) can cast magic missile. But few people realize how the spell actually works. By works here, I mean the physics behind how the spell does damage. Wizards, as a rule, are supposed to be extremely intelligent (the stupid ones blow themselves up), and for the most part are Rp'd as such. But even so, few players have an understanding of these spells and I think that lack of understanding is detrimental to the fact that the wizards are so intelligent (Would you consider someone who knows little to nothing of what they do to be intelligent) and would be easily fixed with Dalvyn's proposed idea.

That all being said, I would encourage the IMMs to discuss the pros and cons of this idea and sincerely think about enstating it. From my understanding of the coding in MUDs and setting skills and the like, it would really take no effort at all to make a player GM at a spell.

Now, I do feel the need to state that no players, at this point, should be sending in requests along the lines of "Dalvyn had a great idea! Can I teach people suchandsuch spell?" The IMMs don't need to be flooded with a load of apps from something that hasn't even been discussed yet, nor will some of them even know what you are talking about. Obviously my little disclaimer here is voided if an IMM posts here stating that they are accepting apps for said Rp.

Thoughts?

[Dalvyn]

To be honest, I do not feel like making people GM so they can teach.

I'd rather have it so that teach is usable even before you are a GM. That would mean that master-apprentice roleplays are possible. Sure, an expert PC might not train you as high as a GM PC, but the expert PC should still be able to teach you something. It should be eventually possible in a master-apprentice relation to just not use the mob trainers and learn everything from the master.

The suggestion posted in the code discussion forum - and for which I'm awaiting input from coders and imms - basically would allow allow each character to teach and be taught a limited number of times per RL days (a bit like people are limited in how many times they can "reward" others per day). That would mean that you couldn't teach someone a spell in one day... multiple lessons would be required.

And the idea would be that teachers of medium skill level (in the skill/spell) would be able to teach other up to their skill level minus one (that's a rough explanation, I'm not going into details here). That means that, once you have learned from a (normal) mob trainer, you can more or less train other people as well as this trainer. As you go up in skills, you would be able to teach others higher and higher - though this progression would be much slower -, perhaps in such a way that, once you are GM, you can teach others up to apprentice.

Once this system is (revised and) coded, I'd be all to give new spells - at a moderate skilllevel - to various known wizards (especially those who have contributed to the game in one way or another; e.g., guildmasters, good roleplayers, ...) so they spread the knowledge.

[Eltsac]

I really like that idea, as i was wondering how one could teach high level spells he could never get to grandmaster.

Do you have an idea on how would works the teacher feat in that? Increase the max level you can teach a spell? or increase the amount you teach each time?

[Brar]

Really like that idea, and also, perhaps limit the training level per spell level and specialization, like low level spells up to adept, mid level to apprentice and high level to inept (don't like high level to be learnable to high skilllevel at start and no cost) And add one level if the teacher is a specialist of that school.

The fact that trainer need xp is also quite tricky sometimes, imagine the master doing a 2 hours long lesson to figure he have not enough xp left... that completly break the roleplay and even if it can be a good laugh, it's bad.

edit: bad night typos

[Eltsac]

Happened to me once (well a while ago, but according to help files, it didn't change).

At the end of the rp, when i saw i couldn't teach the spell... well... i gave the money to the student so he could go learn it from a npc (he needed the spell, and i had no idea how much xp grinding i needed to teach the spell.. well and i didn't think like doing a bunch of teach test after some grinding sessions till i had enough xp).

Just thought it was a little sad.

But now if the number of spells you can teach a day is limited, the xp cost for teacher is maybe not required anymore?

Eltsac

[Zach]

I usually teach them the spell/skill and then RP with them...

[Eltsac]

Well, it's an idea.. but then anyway, if i don't have the xp at the start of the rp, the student might go see the npc, and it's some rp loss to me.

What was the aim of the xp cost for teacher at the start anyway? limit the number of player teaching lessons? or because the teacher has to earn the right to teach? i think i never really knew

Eltsac, who wants to become an old mad teacher