Pregnancy Length

Scylere · Post by **Scylere** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 8:56 am

I don't wish for this to be a thread for bashing the baby system. I think what's been put together so far is really good.

I would just like to ask for a rethinking of the time length for pregnancies. From my understanding the pregnancy lasts about a full year real time. I just have to ask, is a whole year necessary?

I understand that we don't just want random babies popping up all over the place, and that we want committed characters to the cause and the effort an imm would have to do to make the baby happen.

I have a character that is 35. If he were to have a child Dec 1, it would not be born until he was 47...which is nearing death age for medieval time. I would find that difficult to rp.

My main concern is that for the next year of real time, whenever myself or my wife logs in, we have to rp the belly for a whole year real time. And this keeps me from adamantly having children in the game. Personally, I don't want to log on that character for a whole year and have to rp a pregnancy.
I think after the birth the child should be a child for sixteen months, but the pregnancy is just too long.

My view is that it's a game. Does it need to be so realistic? If imms pass an application for a baby, why do the couple have to prove themselves with a year long rp?

This post isn't very clear nor is it short, but I'm just asking for a rethinking of the length of pregnancies.

Oghma · Post by **Oghma** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:15 am

The baby and pregnancy rp is time involving and difficult to roleplay. The end result is that a pc has a child, and that child goes through several stages, first as an object, then as a mobile then as a pc themself. This kind of rp takes time, dedication and pateince to establish properly. I've seen several pc pregnancy roleplays come to term and end and I am sure that those involved have found the time it takes from start to finish to be both engrossing and worthwhile. As you said it is a game, but it has been decided that a pregnancy roleplay should follow some manner of time constraint, be followed properly and should not be rushed. Bellies themselves go through several stages at periods of time key to keeping the experience unique and worthwhile. It is not enough just to gain something after a short period of time, one should have to show dedication to the roleplay and to the responsibility involved with having a child. In my personal opinion, if you cannot follow or accept the time required to have a baby, this rp may not be for you. Just because time is compacted in the mud, does not mean all rp's need to follow suite.

Mele · Post by **Mele** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 8:08 pm

Actually, Mele was pregnant two and a half real life years.

It is a fun and fufilling roleplay. You have to be ready to give yourself to it fully, much like you would to a child IRL. It's a big and serious roleplay and should be treated as such.

You have to be willing to give your character fully to this roleplay, as several other players have with their characters in the past. If you find that it's too long a time to roleplay, maybe you're not ready to give your character in to that yet.

This is very biased, of course. But I'd hate to think that the seven people I can think of who had pregnant characters put all of their time and character into it for real life years only for it to be changed and shortened for a new generation of people. I know things change, and change generally always winds up being for the better, but this is something I would definately not like to see changed. This roleplay was long, and involved, and sometimes I miss Mele from before the pregnancy. But in the end, I wouldn't take it back. It's long and it's worth it, I think people just have to decide if it's worth it to them.

btw; | Age : 56 Mele's age. ;)

Layna · Post by **Layna** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 8:37 pm

I appreciate this is a bit of a tangent, but I'm curious, confused and probably just being dim. I just find myself very conflicted over how to treat the passage of time in FK.

If a pregnancy lasts for 12 in game years - do we just sort of fudge round that? How does one deal with their aging during that time? Or in general for that matter...

Sorry for the derail - it's just that I'm honestly baffled!

Waukeen · Post by **Waukeen** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:59 am

This is somewhat of a difficult question to answer. We want the pregnancy to be a fulfilling and interesting RP, and as such we can't have it go on for 9 game months very easily, considering as that would last less than an RL month and wouldn't be fun or interesting. There are three bellies, each with different echoes and aspects of RP. At that rate, the mother would get a different belly every week and only get to show it off then.

I understand that it's difficult to RP around with the system that's currently in place time-wise, but in order for the RP to be recognised and interesting it needs to go on for awhile. It's not about realism. It's an oppurtunity to roleplay something new and exciting.

Ceara · Post by **Ceara** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:47 pm

What is the feasability of just changing in game time to equal real life time? With minutes hours etc..? Or at least closer to it

Layna · Post by **Layna** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 1:02 pm

I think the problem with this would be that people in different time zones would be up the proverbial creek without a paddle with regards to merchants opening and closing and things.

But I think that maybe more people would feel encouraged to play humans, or things with shorter life-spans if they didn't feel like it was going to whizz by.

Lerytha · Post by **Lerytha** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 1:10 pm

Yes, but... there's always been a certain amount of leniency with the age on your score sheet. You don't have to age 12 years in one RL years just because that's how the code ticks away. Lots of people do, but timescales are often taken with a pinch of salt.

If you don't want your sixteen year old adventurer to suddenly be 28 in just one year, say he's not 28, but twenty. Its only unrealistic if he NEVER grows up at all. But slowing it down ever so slightly and just using the score sheet as a rough guide isn't a problem I don't think.

~Ol

Layna · Post by **Layna** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 1:18 pm

I know that makes sense but this is one of those issues that makes my poor little head hurt

As I understand it the time system as it is now was introduced because characters were aging at different speeds and all sorts, cause you only aged when online. But if different people are interpreting their age score differently... well it sorta defeats the object.

For example - some people might play the IRL year of pregnancy as being the full 12 years in-game, but the preggers person might want to slow that down a bit. But then it'll mean that suddenly someone is years older than someone they were historically younger than?

*brain smokes slightly*

I'm sure it's not really that big a deal all things considered, it's just something that I wrestle with.

Mele · Post by **Mele** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 7:22 pm

That is a whooooooooooole 'nother barrel of worms well beyond pregnancy. :)

The age card. :D

Daediana · Post by **Daediana** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 6:45 pm

I think this is one of those things you have to be flexible on guys... this is a special rp that takes a lot of time and effort for both the PCs and the IMMs... I think really you just need to accept that hey many years may pass in the game, but use your imagination and just you know forget about it and go with the flow... think of it like time slowing down with the people in the pregnancy rp... It doesnt make sense but this is a fantasy game to escape reality... have some fun with it!

Shabanna · Post by **Shabanna** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:46 pm

It is one of those RPs that when you say you wanna do it, your butt better be sure. IRL if you decide you wanna have a baby it takes a good long time.

lol and you better be sure

It is a great RP...with the exception that the Dads tend to disappear in FK.

It seems, with only a few exceptions, that the females have been much more dedicated to the RP. *shrug*

The POINT is... I think it needs to be a long RP... and IC 9 months (less than a full real life month) is nowhere near long enough!!! I have no problem with IRL it taking months. I think If you have a pregnant char and you continually log and you keep RPing and you dont disappear... then you will enjoy it and it will not seem like forever. BUT If you bail on the RP ( and I mean this for the MEN too!!) and do nothing RP wise... you will be miserable when the pregnanacy seems to last for 8 billion years.)

I would like to interject something for anyone considering this RP. If BOTH players who apply log and RP it it is a much better RP. If you are a guy and you want your female partner to get preggo... dont leave her holding the RP bag. I know on this game historically the male characters have no consequence for not being around... and it is accepted that both apply but the female has the burden of the Preg RP. BUT please know...that It CAN be a lot of fun and makes the long RP much better and more interesting for the preggo char when the male shows up and participates with it all. Just because no one MAKES the guys stick with the RP does not mean that it is not your application as well. So GUYS before you send in that app please think about the TIME you are being asked to put into this RP before you write out your app. Because it is a serious time committment.

and no... its not always fun or fullfilling...sometimes its darned boring particualrly if you are doing the RP alone

( do you see a theme here?)...but, if you are committed and stick with it it is a great RP. I have had a lot of time to think of fun kinds of mischief and enjoy my little RP... But I think some people have no concept of how committed you have to be to your char and the RP. It is NOT someting to do on a whim or just because you think it is the "next step" Its a lot of RP work. Just ask the other mommies who had to do it.

*yay mommies*

I would say 9-12 months IRL is more than acceptable... the age thing is just one of those things you have to deal with. Practice using your willing suspension of disbelief folks... Just like we do when we fight a dragon ( there were no REAL dragons! but, sometimes you have to just use your imagination

)

Well thats my little rant...
"The Banna"

Mariela · Post by **Mariela** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 4:50 am

Personally, I do not have a problem with the time constraint at face value. It's a rather big deal Role Play thing, and like good huge things, it shoudl be something that is long lasting, (IE Long Suffering!).

However, with the way that time runs in the chat, why can't it be slightly shorter than a normal pregancy? Is 6 months of pregnancy and a cut down on the kid years really that big of a deal? It's a three month difference, and where it may not seem like a big deal to keep it at the nine, that is three less years in FK time to wear on your character's age stat. What's more, it's three less months that the dads have to be bored out of their skulls while waiting for something to at least play with besides a really annoyed woman. (Sorry for those who have had children in real life. I am sure it's awesome, but from what I understand it has a lot of involvment and technical details that no one want sto see coded on a MUD and emotions that come with it that make it more exciting for dad than on a MUD> with that in mind, I cannot blame them for dissapearing!)

I also have had this ran by me, so some one correct me, but those who parent the child, from what I understand, lose control of said child 100% once it's an adult and a playable character. So you are not even growing your own character, but someone elses. Where this seem fair from an arguing among parents and an attempt to widen the circle of RP, uh..... you spend what.. five years growing something you don't even get to really have any control over. That seems rather cruel and sadistic dont' you think? Not that I think children in real life with their OWN personalities are sadistic. Do not get me wrong, I am talking about a game with fake children. I am curious about the opinions of a sense of realty vs. a sense of role play.

How far to make things real do we have to go to prevent people from wanting to do it every five minutes?

My other question involves "Scripted" children. Do we still have to be pregenant and have 9 months of RP if we do not want that child to ever come in as a playable character? I ask because I am reaching a point in a character's life where this is no real reason why she doesn't have children. ANd yet, with all the different rules involving pregnancy, I do not know if I would want to do it, and what's more, I have been told point blank that it's not something the "dad" would look foreward to at all. ( I do not blame him at all!) Can we script in children that do not see the light of day other than passing comments as long as we have "down log" time with the characters? (By downlog I mean, you don't log them in for a few days to show that they are out spending time with said children.)

I think the pregnancy being long is fair. I just..it's as really complicated system for very little. Joining a faith is not nearly as complicated and I understand it is to cut down on the amount of people wanting to do it, but in that attempt to cut down, has it made it something that makes certain character unbelivable because they do not have children?

Just curious.

Shabanna · Post by **Shabanna** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 6:22 am

Well First I have to take Mele's side in saying that shortening the preg RP time A LOT would really not be fair to the people who have put in a HUGE amount of RP for thier pregnancies.

That said I have to say...that the idea of having "fake" living children kind of stinks to me... in that the people who thus far wanted to say they have a kid have APPLIED and RPd a LOT to get the reward of being the parent. So then suddenly everyone who has the idea that they are married and have to have kids runs out and says they have a dozen little ones and it cheapens the REAL RP of the people who applied for and put in the RP time to really have a baby.

As for the whole "you have something and then lose control of it when it grows"...well... the RP is a long one... and you get to have control while it is and infant , toddler and child... that is like 16 years ICLy ???( really more I think since it is not exact) I dont even know how long the actual RP of "kid time" lasts IRL but ..I think it is sufficient

we raise our kids IRL and let them go out and have control of their adult lives... so .. I see no reason this is bad ICLy to do.

The age thing is constantly being brought up... and I want to say something here that will most likely make me unpopular ( lol as if I have not done that enough in the past

lol ) I have been playing for quite some time.. and I RARELY see people really paying attention to the age stat. Sure there are a gray hairs and a few people change their adj etc.. but i do not see people really trying to be DEAD realistic with this. I think we are splitting a few hairs here. I think people age a bit fast on the game as a whole... but I dont think it is unreasonable that people are asked to put in a good amount of time on the preg rp JUST because some folks think their character will be too old

honestly... most people do not know how old you are... humor me.. log on and walk around asking

lol

I think what you say about not wanting to put in the time really drives home the point of the time that is asked. It is NOT an RP they want everyone to do. It is not an RP that every married couple has to do.. it is an RP that is NOT for the faint of heart... It takes a lot of patience and a lot of creativity... and a lot of dedication to YOUR character and the idea of the RP. if you dont want to take that time... then say you are unable to concieve. I have a char now who has been married a long time...no baby...and its not really unrealistic. It has been RPed and there are a lot of reasons in the realms that you might not have one. Pardon me if I sound rude, I REALLY dont mean to be... but, I think it sounds to me like you feel it is expected of your char as the "next thing to do". There is no time line with little check boxes in it. Live your chars lives and if you do not want to be parents and put in the long standing time it takes to have a baby... then do not have one... adopt a puppy!

lol or babysit! nothing wrong with being FK DINKS

lol

that my 2 cents...
"the Banna"

Mariela · Post by **Mariela** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 8:16 am

I have rewriten this four times, trying not to come off sounding smart or attacky.. but alas, I give up. Here are my thoughts once more, please do not take them personally...

A) Saying that you can't change something cause it's not fair cause X person had to do it X long is silly.

It's like saying that you shouldn't be allowed to vote at 18 cause everyone before it was changed had to do it at 21 and it woudn't be fair! (If you don't get that reference, look up the first voting age at some point. It wasn't always 18 and neither was the drinking age 21 always either.)

That should not be the main focus and reason for anything. I agree it makes people who were the first to do such things seem like they "wasted" their time, BUT I counter that with the arguement you set before us...

Did you not have a worthwhile experiance with your time? Was it not well spent?

For that is the argument you are using for keeping it at 9 years of in character time!

Disclaimer: I love you Mele and Shabanna. You guys are the most hillarious to watch with the wittle child and the pregnancy and stuff. Seriously... you guys make it look EASY and I know it's not!

B) I don't wanna get a dog.
Having a character that checkmarks their life is just as valuable of a character template as someone who wants to be a rebel of the order, or someone who wants to dress up and be the best little priestess of Sune ever!

I personally have this thing for legacy. When I get tired of a character, I sometimes wonder and debate how the next generation would react to the previous. How would a child who had to deal with X parents deal with the burden of heros as their predecesors? In fact, how would an adoptive child feel to be part of a legacy that wasn't exactly their birthright? Both of which are very common fantasy conventions, and yes, there are signs of them in the MUD, but that doesn't mean that it isn't something that facinates me a bit.

For me it's beyond the nine to ten months of "torture". That's simple with the idea of being able to really dig for a sense of legacy and renewal. Which is why the idea of releasing a character that I have basically created from scratch and beyond to another to play is so... hard to concieve. I will spend the first few months shaping what that character is... how do I pass that off to another? Yes, it's baby crap, but that's like an author developing a character and then passing it to his rival and saying, "Here write this, I'm out." And that bugs me at the same time facinates me... but I know that even my close friends, I would have to resist the urge to smack in the back of the head and say,"You would never know that! I had you in a paper bag during that fight!" You know, simple stuff like that.

My point is not that the pregancy system needs to change..(I'd be nice if it was a shorter period of time, but alas, ain't going to happen!) more that if their are alternatives to it and still get the same long term result, what are they? And if there is not, why isn't there?

And while we are on the subject, why do we have to have the dad's sign off on pregnancy? It's not really like we hold them accountable for the RP in the same way the women are. (Come on. Being tortured IC by being yelled at is totally differnet from having a minion that you cannot release into the wild and have to remember to feed, ect ect ect.) So why do they have to sign off on the part? I would like to say that if they are in a fade with a woman, ahem... they have already signed their agreement. (ahem! bet you will rethink those locked rooms in the Lucky Drunk after this won't you boys!) I mean, really, they do not have anything that really affects them, and they have that glorious option of just dissapearing while we women are at home burping the babies!

Anyways.... I am digressing and tired.Please keep the following in mind, and I have to express this yet again....

A) I love FK. Everyone does such a great job doing the rules and the different settings and the coding, lord have mercy people. Busy as most of you are and the time you put in.... awesome. Even the people I want to smack at times, still awesome. I have a lot of fun here, so don't hold my opinions against me.

B) This is a discussion not a shoot out. I am countering things point by point, but that's cause I want people to express! Not cause I'm sniping. To be honest, yes, eventually I would like to try the entire ball of wax, but I am curious to what else is out there. I have found that some polices have more layers to them than just was it there at face value. Time elapse being one of them!

C) Must reitterate, I love the Mele and the Shabanna. I am repeating this cause it occurs to me that some of my comments are a volley at those who are in the preganancy system as it is now. And I want them to know that I am pressing the buttons of the system and not at them. They are WONDERFUL role players who deserve paper products and chocolate for what they contribute to the game. If you haven't run acros one of their characters you are really missing some wonderful stuff and you should find any excuse to say hello and bring the pregant woman and the child wrangler food and exotic trinkets!

Ta da.

Shabanna · Post by **Shabanna** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:26 am

I dont take it as an attack...
and I would hope you do not take what I said as one. and...I really just meant the dog thing as a joke

lol so I am sorry if it came out sounding bad

We are all entitled to our opinions that is what this forum is about. It is not up to us what is changed or not changed policy wise, so this is really just a way to express our thoughts.

I only want to say one last thing about the preg RP... that for however long it actually ends up being for each couple, it is not meant as torture

I believe it was aptly put by Oghma it is about dedication and committment to an RP. You have to log and know that you can't run around training and killing and doing quests and stuff :p BUT that does not mean you have to sit like a lump! Its just more of a challenge to invent your character preggo... thats all.

While I am here I would like to take a moment to say...I think Wauk has done an amazing job with the new 2nd trimester belly and all the new baby stuff and I commend her for the work she has done there. The second trimester belly was added recently and made my RP even more fun and interesting.

I will not post again on this...since really I have said all I care to. I am personally looking forward to the rest of Banna's preg time and who knows... maybe... one day one of my other married gals will want to add to the realms

I will say.. that the RP was interesting enough that I would do it again if the opportunity were given. For now, I am very thankful that I was allowed the chance to have this RP

Fortune Smile!
"The Banna"

Daediana · Post by **Daediana** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 6:49 pm

This is a privilage RP, one that is earned with tons of RP and all that... and I think the lengthy pregnancies should be done. Just keep them the way they are. If you are not willing to invest your time into this then I say don't do it. And if you want to RP being a parents, you should have to go through it completely like Mele is... The kid should be with you at all times, or you should have a nanny or something instituted to take care of the child if you plan to go out adventuring, but look at it this way, when you become a Mommy irl your party life tends to cool off big time, until they are ready for Baby sitters and all the stuff, but still you dont get to go out a lot... its about being a responsible parent, and you need to apply that to the RP too... so to wrap it up... I just want to say... remember when you're doing this RP your not just signing on for 9 months RL of pregnancy, your signing on to be a Mom ig, as it would apply to RL back in these times. And I think Mele and Shabanna are (or will be) doing a GREAT JOB with the RPs that I have seen... and one more thing SHAME ON YOU GUYS FOR NOT BEING AROUND AND PART OF THE RP!!! lol I know rl gets in the way... but STICK AROUND!!! hehe Or that little rumor channel we're discussing in the other thread will have your name written all over it! hehe

Mele · Post by **Mele** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 8:25 pm

I applied for the RP, too. :) Not just as two, but as myself. I never RP that Mele's husband has abandoned her. He can't play. I get it. For the most part, I RP that he's simply at home when she's out. (Sometimes I slip up when I'm feeling emo she's alone, yes)

I always try to think that your RP is the best of what -you- bring to it. Applied for with someone else or not. People have real lives and you can never fully depend on other people for your own rps. Just because husbands aren't there, doesn't mean the entire playerbase isn't. I always thought it was cool for everyone who gets to see a mommy pregnant to get to be a part of the rp. :3

That said, let's not forget the one partner all pregnant people have in this roleplay. Waukeen. She puts a lot of work and effort into babies, bellies, and NPC baby minions. All biased aside, to say it's not fun and fufilling is a little bit of a shot at her, because no matter where husbands go IC, she is still working hard behind the scenes to make it fun and fufilling for all mommies who apply. She works hard!

Mariela: I don't take offense to what you've said. And normally, I'd agree whole heartedly. It's NOT far to tell someone else no because of the things other people did, you're right. I agree. But this is a different subject. I spent two and a half years roleplaying my pregnancy, and I'm proud of where it's at now, I feel great with it. Now the thing is. If you apply for a pregnancy tomorrow, and your baby is born within a real life month, does my progress have to suddenly be rushed because yours went more quickly? As to keep my baby at the right age. Logically, yes. And if not, your baby will wind up being older than mine very quickly. Either way, that's simply not fair to my roleplay. I put a lot of work into it, and now I'll either a: be rushed or b: be I guess, pushed down a peg in the evolution of babies. If that makes sense. Not just me, but the other seven babies in game I can think of off the top of my head.

So then, if there's seven other mommies in game who did the time, why is it so hard now to do the time for thinking mommies?

Scylere · Post by **Scylere** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 4:48 am

I'd like to point out some things that have creeped into this conversation which I did not intend:

I never intended the pregnancy rp be reduced to IC months. I was referring to the baby bellies only, not the child rearing. I could see the child rearing lasting for 16 RL months.

I never said the pregnancy system is bad. I know how much work Waukeen does; goodness she has no life anymore! Maybe that's half the argument, that she just doesn't have time to do shorter pregnancies.

Here's a suggestion:
What if the length of the pregnancy rp (referring to the baby bellies) be according to hours logged? A certain amount of hours logged to have the next belly grow.

From a guy's point of view:
Sure, for a girl, the pregnancy might be enjoyable. She gets to experience many more changes from child growth, imm and character attention, the different bellies and echoes, and whatever crazy things have been coded to the pregnancy system. For a guy, it's the same old thing for months and months. You log on and you have a pregnant wife to take care of. You log on a year later, you have a pregnant wife to take care of. What guy wants to do that on a dnd game?

As a side note:
Why is the child given to a separate player? Isn't that like sharing accounts? That player wouldn't know the memories of the grown child to be able to rp them.

Lerytha · Post by **Lerytha** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:26 pm

I just have to add, lets not get this into one of these strict girl/guy divide debates. I mean, I am a guy and I play (almost exclusively except for a few exceptions) female characters. In some future time I would love the opportunity to RP a pregnant woman.

Wow, weird, you say. A guy roleplaying a pregnant woman? Well, y'know, me mam's been pregnant six times and with a large extended family I see pregnant women all the time... sometimes they're lovely and glowy... other times they are like devils incarnate. Sort of like the pregnant characters online.

Why have I said all that? Well, because if you remember the polls done, actually male players outnumber female players but female characters actually represent a larger number. That's fine. Sometimes guys enjoy RPing a beautiful woman. It can be an interesting experience.

Why did I mention that I would like to RP a pregnant woman? Well, because personally I enjoy all sorts of roleplay. I like the heroic kind of roleplay, the sitting-round-and-drinking-tea roleplay even the romantic roleplay. Maybe I'm going to seem un-neccessarily picky here, but part of me feel slightly offended (not starting a flame war, just making a point

) that on both "sides" of the debate we are having some leaping to conclusions made.

Scylere said:

You log on a year later, you have a pregnant wife to take care of. What guy wants to do that on a dnd game?

Me? Any number of guy players? Its a roleplay game, and yes whilst it is largely adventure motivated its partly so enjoyable because it seems like real life stories are happening around us. (Walk into the Square, and Mele has had her baby! Oh, wow! That was a really difficult pregnancy. I remember the strawberries - etc). It really adds depth. Saying that guys don't want to be involved in that is not really accurate, though I am not insulting your view or stance in any way, Scylere.

I think Shabanna made interesting points about the guys logging of. But again, here we have the phrase "the guys". Yes, I think in all pregnancies I've seen the guy has been on less than the woman. Character-wise. But Mele (herself having played a pregnant character - consummately I might add) actually said that sometimes RL commitments take over.

Part of me feels a bit bad about wading in here, as the topic is about pregnancy timing, but I did want to just say a few things against the (unintentional) blanket phrasing in this topic about "guys" and "girls". Remember, lots of the people we see as "women" because of female "characters" are actually guys. Probably vice-versa for the male characters as well.

Pregnancy roleplay is incredibly rewarding, and I haven't even been directly involved in it! One of my character's has massaged a pregnant lady's foot, another one brought another one fresh wild strawberries. It really does bring people together into an entertaining experience.

Nor do I feel the timing needs to be reduced.

EDIT: to change "extended" at the end to "reduced" and to add the following link to add data to certain views about majority of players being guys (http://www.forgottenkingdoms.com/board/ ... php?t=3481)