Cheating - Arranging for OOC transfers

[Lathander]

Please give your thoughts on the reasonableness of the consequence associated with the following infraction. Be sure to read the "Preliminary Information" thread before posting.

Cheating:
Type 1 - OOC arranging to transfer coins/eq (intent uncompleted) Punish and Verbal Warning

Some Background:
Imms have observed players making OOC arrangements to transfer coins and other objects between their characters. When an imms observe this behavior we are faced with two options:

1) Intervene

• A) Player response "Well, we weren't REALLY going to do it."
  B) Player Response "I was going to tell him NO, right before you showed up"
  C) Player response "Oh, that's against the rules? I didn't know that."
  D) Player response "That was a PRIVATE conversation, what are you doing listening to us?"

2) Wait until the discussion between players concludes and see whether or not the transfer takes place.

• A) Player response "If you knew we were going to do it, you should have said something before we did."
  B) Player response "I was just trying to help this guy out."
  C) Player response "I know at least X number of other people who do the exact same thing and THEY never get in trouble. How come you always pick on me? This sucks, you people suck."

[Raona]

I would say wait and watch. Perhaps tag the items/coins in question so that you don't have to sit around. Then, if the transfer is actually made, the items disappear, and an OOC explanation note is sent to those involved, explaining their transgression, and why the OOC aspect of it made it a rule-breaker. That note should make it clear that IC sharing/trading is fine.

[Kregor]

It's kind of like how a store's loss prevention people can't snag a person for shoplifting until they physically leave the premises. Or if they try, they will likely not have a case....

"Honsetly, I only had the tape in my purse until I was going to pay for it."

If the rules are published, in black and white, then perfectly in recourse to wait until the deed is committed, then snag them.

[Tavik]

I'd definately say wait until such transactions are made. If you intervene, you allow for people to argue. Wait until they are guilty and at least the IMMs will know for sure that they did the rght thing. Responses to players after they are caught can be along the lines of

A)I didn't know for sure you were going to do it, and now I do.

B)The rules are published and accessible to everyone. This sort of helping is not tolerated. Check it for yourself and let me know if I am in correct.

C)I'm sorry, but you are the one's I caught. I'll keep an eye out for others doing the same thing.

Another point that complicates things is that if a second person holds the coin/eq for the offender, the second person may have no idea what is going on if they don't know the two characters having the stuff transfered between are played by the same person.

Do we punish the holder as well? My vote is no. My reasoning for not punishing the holder is pretty much what I said above: They may not know what is going on. Even if they do, there is usually no way of knowing and I don't think it is fair to take the risk of punishing an innocent person. Besides, even if they do know what they are doing, they are still not the main offender. There's my thoughts. I figured it might become an issue at some point so I may as well bring it up.

[Mariela]

I find the idea of someone coming up with dropping stuff to pick up or buy as another character hysterical.

Is coin REALLY that hard to get? I mean, really. Even my 12th level character can sneak to a location she wants to shop at and beg for coins and get what she wants. If I can do it, I am most certainly you can keep your stuff to the character it belongs to.

Ideal One: The Drop and Get Later
For people who are dropping things to pick up later -- Thank you. I have made a bundle on picking up your stuff, incidently. (As I indiscriminately pick up everything in my character's paths.)

I think the IMM's should be alllowed to amush cashes and items dropped and moniter them for who picks them back up. If the same account has dropped and picked up an item, busted.

Punishment One: The Warning
I honestly think you should get the verbal warning as well as losing the items in question. If you dropped a ruby necklace to be picked up by your second character, that necklace is gone. Regardless of what it is, those items are forfeit. I also believe the IM's have the right to strip those characters of any other "ill gotten gain" that they suspect you have gotten through these sort of transactions.

Punishment Two: Banning of your account.
I think if after the first time, you didn't quite get it. Poof. You are grounded from your account until you can show the IMM's you understand what "Cheating" is.

Punishment Three: Banning you.
Obviously you REALLY dont' get it and FK's is just not for you.


Situation Two: Hold this for my Friend David Passoff
It's unfortunate, but it does happen. Wether they second person/account knows they are part of the situation is not the issue. The issue is responsibility.

Punishment One: Just like above. Except I think both players/accounts suffer the brunt of the punishment. I think that second person has little to fear if this is the only transaction that the IMM's have witness them participating in. If they do it constantly.. they are in on the conspiracy and should be a part of the massive punishment of ill gotten gains.

Punishment Two: Ditto. Except handing both accounts. Good lord, did the first warning not make you realize your friend is getting you into trouble?

Punishment Three: Ditto, just like above.

Most people shift money and goods for betting bang for their buck, and that sort of destroys the idea of having fun and doing these quests that people have worked so hard on. The game isn't about being better than everyone else. It's about having fun. So you should be having fun wether you are wearing rags in character or if you have the blunt longsword of plain doom.

[Lathander]

I am closing this discussion. Please do not post further replies.

Please DO vote in the poll. One vote per player.

[Lathander]

The votes on this one were, for the most part, evenly distributed. As such I am declaring this topic closed. If such behavior is observed, the imms will, at their discretion, either intervene and offer a warning to the players involved (most likely to happen with newer players) or wait to see if the transaction takes place and then take the appropriate action (most likely to happen with players who have been around awhile).