Titles

For the discussion of general topics about the game.
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Layna
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Post by Layna » Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:30 pm

Dalvyn wrote:I'm not "the boss". I would go as far as saying that there are currently no boss and that imms take important decisions collectively and unimportant ones single-handedly.
I was being facetious. But the point still stands that the use of 'elven translator' elven was discussed and people were quite vocal about not liking it for exactly the reasons stated - it smacks of OOC 'snobbery' and elitism.

If titles are supposed to be 'common IC knowledge' I would suggest that this pretty much means they have to be in a common language. It seems pretty simple to me...

On a similar note I've sometimes spotted titles that appear to be 'in jokes' and I have to confess I'm not hugely keen on those either.
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Post by Ninde » Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:21 pm

I used an elven title for a long time, then changed it into "common" just because of discussions over elf snobberies. Well, speaking of Ninde, I tell what my title is,in common, when I am introducing myself to someone. And if you don't know my alt, then, why do you have to learn it OOCly what guild my alt is in, or what she is up to. If you would be that curious, otells would work in my opinion, as curiousity of a title on who list you don't know, is totally OOC curiousity.I don't think people should be that reactive over little stuff. Roleplay, in general is considered by each individual in the game. Ninde, as a ranger, has a limited people she roleplays with often, as she does not go to Market Square or some other city to meet new people or something. And the people I roleplay with, usually knew what my title mean, through roleplay. If that makes me a twink, then yes, I was a twink. But I don't honestly understand why most of the discussions turn into snobby elves discussion lately.
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Sindava
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Post by Sindava » Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:08 pm

Personally, I would rather see someone with a title which reflects their character or aspirations over one which is nonsensical or unintelligible to the player base.

Okay, now read that sentence again and this time don't assume that I'm talking only about elven titles...

References to obscure events or places in titles could be interpreted as being as infuriating to understand as a crafted title which may only really mean something to a few players.

My own opinion, but it's probably unfair to single out one particular set of players and/or titles and call them snobbish or poor. It seems odd that we encourage players to research the races they play on the one hand and then seek to impose limits on how they can use that knowledge. For me, it's equally snobbish to say that you will refuse to 'understand' someone who isn't using source material or that someone is only trying to one-up everyone else if they use a title that you as an individual don't 'get'

If titles were purely logical then every ranger would have a title that said ranger/warden/pathfinder/scout of Mielikki/Chauntea/Corellon. Factual, but terribly bland.

So long as a title is IC, not profane and not offensive to another player then I have no problem with someone using Elven words, Calimshite phrases, drow battle cries or anything else they want.

If you don't understand a title and that's bugging you, why not just ask OOCly.
Sindava
Voronwer Amandil en Corellon
Dagnir en Ssri`Tel`Quessir

Uuma quena en'mani ile ume, ri'mani ile umaya.
Uma ta'arlava ta quena ten'irste'
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Post by Dalvyn » Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:51 pm

Sindava
Voronwer Amandil en Corellon
Dagnir en Ssri`Tel`Quessir

Uuma quena en'mani ile ume, ri'mani ile umaya.
Uma ta'arlava ta quena ten'irste'
Now, THAT's a signature to go with your message. :shock:
The fairplay edit pixie looked at the other thread and saw that Sindava wrote:Sindava

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Post by Paskry » Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:11 pm

However spiffy or unintelligible that signature is, it points out that she used a website- which may or may not be WOTC official- to translate it.

That shows a lot of time and effort.

However, it also shows that she may, or may not, be using a site that is appropriate for a game that already has an elven language for an ooc tool that is for the players to utilize in their favor. If I recall correctly, Terra Firma doesn't have a bunch of elves telling us how to speak their language. If the tool is OOC- make it in accordance with OOC realisms.

That is not to mean that you should stop using the elven titles in your IC greetings; if you want to, do so- its your character and you should play it how you like, within the bounds of Toril. But unless you want to send Mele off on a hair-ripping journey through cyberspace, please apply an english translation.

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Post by Zach » Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:56 pm

When someone greats one of my chars IC with some fancy non common greeting name... I make fun of it... then they usually "correct" me and tell me what it is IC...

If someone doesn't tell me. I'll flat out ask what does that mean...

If i want to know where they got that from... i'll ask them OOC where they got that information from...

I don't see the problem... if they don't want to be made fun of. They should change their greeting to someothing others would understand....

For the record... i had NO ideea that Khalreshaar ment Mielikki....
Zach

Post by Zach » Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:57 pm

stupid debugging mode
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Post by Mele » Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:46 pm

Just another thought on this one. Not ONLY elves use elven titles. Half elfs, humans, anyone who hugs a tree or thinks they're better than your average human does.

So okay. Do these people have GM elven IC? Because hey, I sure in hell do. So why I am I spending my time looking when their character could potentially not even know it themselves. "Well, my character is expert so they know most of it." That's great, and so it just happens that your character who likely only speaks elven to elves IC found out just those words? How far is too far here?
Do you really have to understand them though? I mean, when it comes to writing (especially role-playing) I'm a big believer in 'style before purpose'. If they know what it means and think it suits their own character why should it really matter? It is THEIR character and this is a game based around words. The only way to improve your character --to really set it apart-- is with words. The more well-written your descriptions or esoteric your choice of words then the more interesting your character becomes. Good on them for being out there. If it really frustrates you I recommend healthy stress management solutions such as the adult beverage of your choice
Did you read my post? :\ I VERY MUCH think titles are NOT for yourself. Titles are the one place to give a little interesting IC info about your character to everyone else. THEIR character should just be using the coded elven language as it is IC so why I am looking at noncoded elven on the who list? You're right, the only way to improve the character is with words So hey. Go GM elven on your non elf and be elf snobbing IC. Make my CHARACTER frustrated with the CODED elven they may not understand, not the tranlated elven that my character WOULD understand but I can't. So why is it that there are so many words in the english language and you feel the only way to be interesting is to use words that - aren't even a real language! The main problem with this is there are so many translators all over the place for so many types of this language no one has ever used in history that you can never find the precise meaning of a word. You look at a title you don't understand and think "Wow, that person has great character!" without knowing what it means? I mean in all seriousness it could mean like "killed your dog" or something. And even more seriously, the halfelf/human end of people that use it may not even be GM elven IC.

I never said it was elven snobbery. Why? Because most times it's people trying to prove their non elven character is omgsoelven. The problem I'm seeing here is not - "Ranger of Corellon" - that's three words. I can spend five minutes looking for that. That's not a big deal. What is is things like "ate cereal for breakfast and loved it". That's HARD to find. It's ANNOYING to find. Okay, so, you think, I shouldn't care what your title is if I don't know your character and it's really none of my business because you introduce it ic. Well, crap. Call me crazy, but if your title is none of the who lists business... why use one more than your sirname in general? Because you make a title for everyone who sees the who list. It's not just for who knows you.. they ALREADY know you. Or, here's an even bigger concept. They don't know you, but perhaps just maybe you rp so well, with so many people they've heard of you. Or even, they do know you though someone elses introduction so no, they never got the meaning of your pretty looking title.

Titles are IC info. I shouldn't -have- to ask ICly what your title is when I have GM elven. A non elf spends hours roleplaying and working on their elven. I remember with Lunette all of the time I put into working on elven with Lorelie and her laughing at Lunette's accent IC and such. So at the end of the day all of that work for Lunette (AND her teachers) and so many other non full elves who worked on elven is.. "Too bad send an otell they're interesting!"?

Let me just make this extra clear here. "Priestess" "Ranger" - easy for people to type who say huh.. search and find. I have no aggrivation with that whatsoever, even when it comes to non GM elven people. They're simple words. But "My cat has black fur" "I'm in love with this person" "I hate cheerios today" - Yes. I have a personal issue of aggrivation with these titles.

I didn't bump this into the thread stated because it's not about elves. It's not about elven. Elven is the most commonly used and easily used as example hence it's focus here. But this bump is about all titles in all languages that are not common. And that thread went big into elven snobbery, that's not what I'm getting at here.


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Sirka
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Post by Sirka » Sun May 06, 2007 1:29 am

Just curious...
I set a title the other day and the thought crossed my mind that it might not be following the help title regulations and then looked down the who list to see that there were others that were possibly toeing the line a bit... sooo

I am here to ask for an imm ruling? Are the Help title rules still in effect?

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Post by Maybel » Sun May 06, 2007 5:56 am

I think 95% of the time people follow 'help Title' save for a few moments of funnyness that tend to leak out but are changed after a few hours or days.

From what I have seen. But, I could be wrong
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Lathlain
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Post by Lathlain » Sun May 06, 2007 9:50 am

The help titles file is still in effect, and should be conformed to where possible. A title is deemed to be in-character information for those to whom it should be accessible, and although you will likely be asked to change your title if it's horribly against policy, it's good to not have to undergo that :wink:
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Post by Stayne » Tue May 08, 2007 1:48 am

Are you allowed to lie in your title if its IC to do so? At the same time, can someone call themselves a General even though they are basically a scum of the earth longear with delusions of grandeur?

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Post by Amalia » Tue May 08, 2007 8:06 am

Pity the poor fool that takes anything coming from an unconfirmed source as gospel truth! :P

If it's reasonable that your character would have developed a reputation for whatever your title is, I don't see why it would be unacceptable to lie. As far as I'm aware, the title is IC information because it reflects how a PC is percieved in rumor-- which I'm sure we all know can be wildly inaccurate.
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Post by Lathlain » Tue May 08, 2007 8:29 am

Although anyone prepared to lie about something of that magnitude invites an awful lot of trouble, and would no-doubt be called out on it with hillarious consequences.

It's all relative, but I'd say simply concocting a position (Commander, Baron, King etc) out of the blue and strapping into your in-game title is a bit much. Lesser titles you could probably get away with lying about (Remember that you would need to apply if you -really- wanted one of those titles in your background before you make your character :wink:), but only if it were a commonly held belief among others.

Personally though I'd prefer to see the who list reflect the truth for the most part. If you have no title and no occupation, or if you'd like to disguise your title then simply having a surname would do nicely.
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Post by Leohand » Tue May 08, 2007 4:24 pm

Like having a bugbear fighter from Skullport using the title Archmage of Tantra's. That would be frowned upon I'm sure. I know, this is stretching it a lot, but the point is better to be truthful.
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Post by Amalia » Tue May 08, 2007 6:08 pm

A bugbear fighter from Skullport using the title Archmage of Tantras would likely cause a bunch of angry Tantrans to rise up, chase him down, and skin him alive. All reasonable roleplay, if there's justification behind it, I'd say :P
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