Component Wars

Hviti · Post by **Hviti** » Sun May 13, 2007 8:13 pm

Hi, I received this information when trying to ascertain why a certain component was out of stock.

___ (197) in A ___

___ (49) carried by x mount
___ (39) carried by x mount
___ (29) carried by x mount
___ (17) carried by x mount

I was just wondering whether it's all right for anyone to carry on such a business with any sort of component - e.g., is it ok for me to buy up 400 gems so no one can raise dead, or 500 stones so no one can teleport? Would 1 person be icly able to cause all of Faerun to go out of stock? (well, yes, it's possible, but is it ok to keep the world that way because one knows that thanks to the game's code one can't buy certain items if x number of them have been bought in game). I assume there's some sort of RP behind this, just wondering.

Thanks

Lerytha · Post by **Lerytha** » Sun May 13, 2007 8:58 pm

Nope. Its not alright. I remember ages ago, there was an echo in-game by an imm, reminding spellcasters not to "hoard" components. I think 15 or so "some furs" is fine, but 250 "somethings" of decent enough value is not fine. Of course, an imm may disagree at this moment in time.

I think all wizards should think about the difficulty of obtaining components, when they buy certain ones.

Amalia · Post by **Amalia** » Sun May 13, 2007 9:10 pm

I've noticed a similar issue with a component critical to most of my wizard's favorite spells. It may or may not be the same component spoken of above-- the numbers were smaller each time I've checked, though a number of people look to have over 50 of the item in question-- but I know the stock list for Mystra's Gifts has shortened markedly since when I first began wizarding.

Japcil · Post by **Japcil** » Sun May 13, 2007 9:57 pm

Note that Mystra's Gifts is a player owned shop, thus it must be replenished by its owner. You could always poke one of those hoarders and say "hey there, I see your pouch is full of <item> Id be happy to buy some from you." I hoarde gems, but im a priest of garl, therefore it makes sense, but i'd always be willing to part with a few for a special price or another type of component.

Hviti · Post by **Hviti** » Sun May 13, 2007 11:54 pm

Japcil wrote:Note that Mystra's Gifts is a player owned shop, thus it must be replenished by its owner.

Mystra's Gifts can't be replenished if so many items have been bought that even merchants who sell the item are out of stock. That is the case in this particular case.

Japcil wrote: You could always poke one of those hoarders and say "hey there, I see your pouch is full of <item> Id be happy to buy some from you."

Sometimes the hoarders are of diametrically opposite faiths or aren't known icly. This isn't as much of a problem if more than one person is doing the hoarding - one of them probably is someone you can approach - but in this case it is one (or at the most two) characters who have virtually all the components.

Maybel · Post by **Maybel** » Mon May 14, 2007 12:14 am

first off... you are not describing the item being used... it might be perfectly fine to have close to 200 spell items... but saying someone having 500 jacinth gems is quite different... or having 400 shining pink gems....

If someone has close to 200 furs... that is fine or feathers, or another component... I see no harm in that or hording quite a load of it...

Ceara · Post by **Ceara** » Mon May 14, 2007 12:47 am

It's not ok far as I know.
I run another pc component shop in the keep and I am only allowed to stock 40 of one item max so that the game doesn't run out.
which means a lot of restocking for me, especially on popular items like yaunti eyes -.- can't seem to keep them in for more than a day.

Amalia · Post by **Amalia** » Mon May 14, 2007 2:25 am

That could be a vicious cycle issue... people can't get yuan-ti eyes, so as soon as someplace stocks them they buy a whole bunch, expecting they won't be able to get them again anytime soon... self-fulfilling prophecy.

Oghma · Post by **Oghma** » Mon May 14, 2007 2:45 am

Possible solutions would be to do the following:

1. Create a limit to the amount of spell components that someone can utilize, something reasonable like 10-30. A problem here would be that components could be stored on mounts or in storerooms.

2. Extend the duration and use of components for spells disabling the need to stockpile components. Instead of a five use item have it set to ten or more.

3. Create a system through player driven quests that allows the reistablishment of sought after components through ic means, such as grinding gems to make gemdust through a lapidrist to the diving and battling of clams for pearls. Some components are already renewable. Counter point and problem with this would be stockpiling through these actions. Maybe create a randomising of the success or a certain amount of times component creation can be accomplished by spending stamina or coinage. Such quests could be compiled by those willing to create them.

These ideas a tempermental at best but might yeild a viable solution with a bit of editing.

Hviti · Post by **Hviti** » Mon May 14, 2007 3:42 am

Oghma wrote:A problem here would be that components could be stored on mounts or in storerooms.

That's exactly the problem in this case - and I have yet to find out whether the character stockpiling the item is going to release them or intends to keep anyone from casting spells involving that component. Even if ways of creating them by crafts were added, wouldn't the mud still not support over a certain number of the items in game?

Japcil · Post by **Japcil** » Mon May 14, 2007 4:01 am

The mud can handle having it created, how many end up in a shop is based on the number already loaded.

Example: 5 characters are on and there are 475 shining gems loaded.
Limit is 500 for one of the shops.
A character logs on having 26 of those gems.
Game amount is now 501.
Shop is now out of stock.
Player having 6 logs off.
Game count is 495.
5 are now available for purchase.

Thing is, these settings vary from shop to shop.

Kregor · Post by **Kregor** » Mon May 14, 2007 5:16 pm

It might be worht mentioning, depending on the component that is running short, that it could be part of an imm-assisted RP to reflect a shortage of a specific component in the game for a time...

Things like high demand or conspiracy to cause a shortage in a market can affect the shop inventories as well, and the imms can add to the complication by turning down the inventory on the specific item.

It has happened before, shortages of the gem item needed for raising dead, among them, and it's a part of economics. And yes, when an item runs short, just like IRL, hoarding is an instinct reaction. Is it really fair to limit a person's amount they can buy? No, not really, because there would not be such an IC limit imposed upon someone with the cash. That is, unless rationing comes into play in certain areas.

Meanwhile, my thought would be, RP the shortage, and if you think something is consistently running out of stock in a specific shop ad perpetuum, then email fkbuilders@lists.gallwey.com, and we'll look into it.

Leohand · Post by **Leohand** » Mon May 14, 2007 5:51 pm

One of my priest characters is known to hoard blessed water, but in the past I only got them from bandit clerics, they were too expensive and my priest too poor, but now ZI learned the bless water spell, and was considering buying a few hundred flasks of water and blessing them, and I was wondering if this sort of hording was unacceptable? The flasks only cost 1 copper, but I do not know if they are of limited quantity.

Dalvyn · Post by **Dalvyn** » Mon May 14, 2007 6:18 pm

One component is indeed currently hoarded as part of a roleplay. I am unsure where the roleplay is heading though, but it should hopefully not last too long (since this component is also needed by new wizards to successfully graduate from the School of Wonder).

Nedylene · Post by **Nedylene** » Mon May 14, 2007 8:14 pm

I am the first to confess that occassionally I will go and buy 50 plus of some components when I am going off to train a spell. But, I also usually go through the entire component stock I bought in a day or two days while working on training that spell. If I don't use them all I usually give them away or leave them on the ground in one of the spell component shops... I am also known for buying the WRONG component because I shorten the name and leave them on the ground *coughs*

Dalvyn · Post by **Dalvyn** » Mon May 14, 2007 10:14 pm

I would also like to point out that some components can already be gathered (though sometimes the process to gather them can be painful). I plan to work on adding more processes to do that (thanks, in no small part, to an idea from Kelemvor).

I would like to make those "processes" more complex than just "kill mob, get thing", and I'm currently investigations options that would require specific interactions with objects in game (one could think of them as some "mini-games inside the game"), like, for example, using a special oven (adding wood, adding charcoal, adding water, closing/opening vent, ...) to try and keep the temperature within an acceptable range while melting glass to create glass rods.

Another option would be to develop an "alchemy" trade [no, not a trade where you would have to do the same thing over 5000 times before you are able to craft something useful] where you would mix up various ingredients in order to produce new things (e.g., moonstones, earthstones, ...). The good thing with "alchemy" is that we don't have to base the recipes on what can be done in real life. It could also be possible to make it so that the recipes are not given but have to be found out in-game by "researchers".

The final goals are

1) to make it so that component shops are "the easy way" to get components, but there are other ways to get them too -;

2) those "other" ways might be time-consuming enough that high level characters would gladly pay lower-level characters to craft components for them;

3) those "other" ways are doable no matter what level you are.

Hviti · Post by **Hviti** » Mon May 14, 2007 11:27 pm

Dalvyn wrote:One component is indeed currently hoarded as part of a roleplay. I am unsure where the roleplay is heading though, but it should hopefully not last too long (since this component is also needed by new wizards to successfully graduate from the School of Wonder).

Is there any general limit for how long such shortages might last?

Raona · Post by **Raona** » Tue May 15, 2007 11:00 am

For what it's worth, in this particular case, it would seem that anyone with silver and access to a smith or the skills of a smith could fashion passable shiny silver mirrors, with sufficient investment of time in polishing them; seems like an opportunity for an industrious entrepreneur, though they would need some Immly aid.

Selveem · Post by **Selveem** » Wed May 16, 2007 12:25 pm

Alright, so hoarding is still a problem? Well, in the spirit of those who lament the game not being real enough, there is also a code-ready solution that can be made: increasing cost of "out of stock" items; make them still available, but because of the rise in popularity of said item/component, the price is raised to meet the low supply's high demand. MUD economics!

Neriadin · Post by **Neriadin** » Wed May 16, 2007 2:38 pm

Reganomics (supply-side economics) means a drastic overhaul of the economics code. Although it would make it quite expensive to hoard all of a given item by purchase alone, it still would not completely solve the "hoarding problem" because the number of any given object in game is finite.