Pregnancy Length

Meekir · Post by **Meekir** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 4:43 pm

First of all, the RP from the moms and the work from Waukeen are awesome and appreciated.

Now personally, I think this debate is interesting for many of the reasons Lerytha brought up about the variety of experiences to be had by players and characters. At one point an ill-timed fever threw one of my characters into a panic thinking he had gotten a girl pregnant... of course, I know you need an application and a happy mommy-daddy couple to do that OOC, but it suuure got me thinking. (and man, was that "morning sickness" experience entertaining...)

There's more variety than happy couples that makes for good RP. While I can understand the requirements and restraints on pregnancy because of the amount of work that goes into it, I'm somewhat bewildered at the emphasis on happy couple RP and the cross-over of OOC/IC calls for dads to stick around. I agree dads should try to log on. Who says dads have to be stuck when they do, in order to RP well? C-: My character wouldn't ever start a pregnancy as a committed dad - but after a lot of RP, that might change. I don't know if it's allowed to go in OOC and say "yeah, we agreed I'm going to be committed to RPing a deadbeat..." but it's a possibility. That OOC agreement that there will be IC conflict is key. Nobody wants to make the moms disgruntled OOC... they'd kill us all...

What the heck was I saying? Oh yes. Preg duration may be appropriate for amount of work put in, but don't sacrifice fun for realism OR an effort to be nice about it. Fun should win. Interesting play and good stories should win every time. If the preg duration is too much and it wears on your fun in-game, serious thought should be given to changing it. If not, fine. That seems to be the only relevant consideration (even time-warps set aside when it comes to having fun, as many a person who has chatted for in-game "days" knows).

Now... if you're looking to spice up that long duration beyond the puppies-and-sunshine RP of a happy couple... go talk to that nice evil down the street about what bargain deals you can get for your first-born...

Shabanna · Post by **Shabanna** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 5:33 am

He he he I would like to clarify... by "guys" I mean the male/father Char... who could be RPd by a male , female or... cat...>.> well ... okay maybe not a kitty:P

I just wanted to clarify that when I said "guys" I didnt mean that all husbands are male players... but, all the female characters ( whether played by women or men... have had a husband... the husband... is who I refered to as "Guy" it was meant as an IC reference not OOC.

just wanted to clarify so that people did not think I was being a sexist pig

lol

also...

I am VERY understanding of RL... I think most of the players of preggo characters are/have been, else there would be no babies actually born

lol
though, I do feel ( and i do not mean this as a flame for the Imms or the other players or ANYONE...its just an opinion... based on my own observations and not meant in a derogatory way... just matter of factly) ... the father's on the game are (IMHO) not really expected to put in time on the Preg RP in the same way the mother char is. And though I agree that there is a more in it for the player of the mother, since she gets the "pet" etc... it *is* a two person app. Why do I say this? Well just really wanted to say this as a person who has been through the preg process some...and really enjoyed it

that those who want to play a father and have time IRL to be around ICLY it is a FUN thing to RP with the other parent

there are A TON of potential RP situations with the parents. The bellies do simulate the pregnancy and give all around the Mom lots to RP. From cravings to aches and pains to the baby kicking

SO Dad players who get the chance to do the RP and be AROUND with the Mom... Have A LOT of things to do and it makes the RP WAaaaY more fun for the MOM

(who's RP is SEVERELY ALTERED by the pregnancy) That was sort of what I was trying to say and I guess I did a bad job of it?

I was not pointing fingers or intending to be sexist...

I wanted to say... If you are a person who is a potential Dad and you don' t want your RP altered at all...( i.e. you want to just log and run off to adventure and not have to be ICLy supportive to the MOM...or you prefer to log your alts becaus you do not want to be ICLY supportive... or you have doubts about wanting to do the RP AT ALL...) I would recommend that you wait to apply. Just so that you do not end up in an RP that is not rewarding to both you and the player of the Mom.

SO to make this even LONGER

I will say.... I understand that RL is more important than the game. Believe me I have 3 kids and a business... and I know that RL is sometimes busy. I Myself have had times I could not play at all

as I am sure many of the Mommy players have. My point was not about RL... so I wanted to come clarify before the Dads who have had some IRL stuff crop up come hunt me down for flaming them! lol cuz I wasn't

I was really leaning more toward the comment that was quoted made originally by Scylere about not wanting to be sitting around doing nothing etc...

Okay Im done with my overly long rant

I hope that made sense >.<
Fortune Smile!
"The Banna"

EDIT*** I was writing this post and Meekir posted and did not see their post. So I appologize if it seems off.

Also As I understand it (I believe it was clarified by Sharni) it is understood/assumed that pregnancy is easily prevented and everyone takes those measures in the realms so that *accidents* will not happen... and that ONLY those who apply can do any kind of preg RP ? Please correct me if I am mistaken >.<

And in response to the "happy couple" thing...I think if you wanted to RP a deadbeat Dad both players would have to have that in their App and be OKAY with it...( because OTHERWISE it would stick the mom with a pregnancy RP...and I am sorry but, that is incredibly unfair) and I imagine Wauk and the other Imms would have to review the app and make that call.

Mele · Post by **Mele** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 5:14 pm

There's been pregnancies w/o daddies, just for the record. :D

Shabanna · Post by **Shabanna** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 5:51 pm

I was not saying there were not...pregnancies without a Dad I was saying... that to go into an RP with someone saying you will be a "present" Dad and then decide to RP being a deadbeat Dad on a whim... is not a good thing cause it misleads the other person.

I have no idea what the policy is on single parent preg apps as I have read the help files and see nothing about "single parent" preg apps...

In all the info I have read on preg I have read only info that says both players muct apply. i guess that keeps a Mom from saying " so and so" is the Father... and him not having and say etc.

And I was also going to add (before my IRL toddler got sick int the middle of the night and I had to log off hurriedly... lol) in response to Meekir's note about selling your baby ( which I am sure was said in jest

)That I would imagine there being some serious IC consequences! lol If A Mom character can not drink without there being serious ones... I can not even BEGIN imagine what selling off your babe to a evil would net you ICLY

as far as punishment!! lol ( and yes I say all this in jest... so, please do not post fussing about me making light of it

)

Banna

Mele · Post by **Mele** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 11:09 pm

Sorry, not enough words there.

There have been PLANNED non daddy pregnancies. :D I was saying it more for Meekir's knowledge, of the ideas of not having perfect relationship babies. :D It has come up, and been done, very well. :D

Daediana · Post by **Daediana** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:14 pm

I love watching the Pregnancy rps... I remember back when Mele was pregnant, and she played it so well... I didn't mean to attack the guys persay, but the characters that are male... I think it would be a lot more entertaining for the man to actually come around and rp... a year of that will really prep you guys for the REAL THING! If you ever decide to have children... Btw Lerytha's player *hugs* I'm glad you want to try it from the woman's perspective and I definately think you should sometime!!! It would be interesting to see... and I agree it does add a lot of depth to the game, especially when Mele was pregnant, even now that she has Liric... the child in the square always brings entertaining things to the rp... like when this big hulking Hrosskell is goofing around with a child and being a dork... its fun to watch those sort of things, and watch these big hero type characters turn into kids again!! I don't think we need to debate on this... the imms set it up for how they want it and I agree that Wakeen does a FABULOUS job doing it, and the lengthy rp allows for more people to be involved over time because like stated above... RL can come in the way, and if it goes quickly, someone might be away for awhile because of RL and miss out on a whole huge rp if they are a close friend or something!!! So I say keep it the way it is... and if you are not interested in putting in that much time, then I hate to be blunt, but this rp really is a privilage to those really devoted to RP and who have earned it, so don't do it if you aren't interested in putting in the time. This is a rp based Mud and people come here because they LOVE the hardcore RP! So enjoy it and just be a friend to a pregnant person if you don't feel like putting in all the time.... You can always be an Auntie or an Uncle!

Shabanna · Post by **Shabanna** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 7:45 am

Is it possible to have this combined into the preg thread? I think it might be a good home for it

I was looking for this thread cause I wanted to refresh my mind about what was said about the preg RP length and so forth...and it took me a bit cause I kept scrolling through the preg thread thinking it would be there.

Thanks,
Banna

Lea · Post by **Lea** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:42 pm

I admit I loved the whole pregnancy rp and wish I could be around more for the rewards of the baby rp but unfortunately rl calls me away. I think if you were to shorten the pregnancy times then it would cheapen what many of the rest of us have gone through. If you apply one of the things they let you know is that it will take a long time so you better be sure that is something you are willing to take the time out to do. If not then don't apply but also don't complain when it does seem to take a long time because you do know how long it takes.

Lukon · Post by **Lukon** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:58 pm

I would just like to point out that it's a logical fallacy that a change in how things are done cheapens how they WERE done.

I see benefits to both shortening IC pregnancy lengths and keeping them the same. But even if a change were put forth, no one can magically go back in time and alter previous experiences, and they can't erase the enjoyment of the RP.

Mele · Post by **Mele** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:59 pm

Pregnancy length WAS shortened. :)

Mele was pregnant for two real life years. She had her first baby model for a year and a half irl. :)

Things are much shorter now. :)

Kelemvor · Post by **Kelemvor** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:47 pm

I would just like to point out that it's a logical fallacy that a change in how things are done cheapens how they WERE done.

Equally illogical to think that that is always true. Hmm and also a tad naughty to immediately assume that that is what these players are suggesting. *smote wags a finger*
I merely see people asking it remain a similar length of time because that is the right time span to properly enjoy the rewards of the RP.

Mele is quite right in that since the pregnancy related area was created and various other changes implemented things have gone more swiftly.
However, this is a roleplay which is expected to last longer than is ICly accurate becuase it is one which has such a big impact upon the character's life on the game.

Lukon · Post by **Lukon** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:18 am

My apologies. I meant no offense. The pregnancy should be a serious and timely roleplay. I just don't want it to overly stretch IC timeless beyond credulity. That's the only real problem I see with the current setup.

Ooma · Post by **Ooma** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 6:52 pm

*grunts and scratches* orcs have babiez fast right? We breed lots! ( like Da One-Eye say!)

Ooc: On a serious note I have heard that ICly elven pregnancies are longer due to the longer length of elven gestation. Wouldn't races like orcs with much shorter gestation periods (i.e. 6 months) have much shorter IC pregnancies? ( Just curious.)

Powah to da One-Eye
Ooma

Kelemvor · Post by **Kelemvor** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 7:23 pm

ICly, yes you're quite right Ooma... but (of course, hehe) OOCly no, which I suppose is what we're trying to balance with the pregnancy roleplay.

I'm not sure where this notion of making pregnancies 'more IC' comes from since ICly one hour in the game is 5 real-life minutes. Thus the Nine months for a human pregnancy then becomes only three and a bit weeks... at one trimester per week that's hardly enough time to even experience all of the echoes.

As a roleplay, the three trimesters, the birth and the early years of the infant are therefore not made to run to any IC timetable. There is a rough OOC timetable, but that is often dictated to by the frequency with which a PC plays.

There isn't really a logical method by which different gestation periods could be introduced since the key driver is the roleplay opportunity and not the ICness of how it is organised.

Ooma · Post by **Ooma** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 9:28 pm

Maybe I am misunderstanding and Kel is posting in response to something else? Either way, I was simply curious as I have *heard* that elven gestation ICly is longer than that of the humans. I do not know this to be a fact actually. So, in short, I was asking if OOCly the time was shorter or longer based on the race of the character. (or if it is really just based on the amount of RP time put in.) As I understand it, there is no set gestation based on race then and it is a basic outline of time which could be longer based on RP effort etc. I am not sure where I heard about the gestation time ICLy being longer for elves. I apologize if my question sounded like a complaint. (?) It was actually just plain curiosity.

In addition, I wondered how one in a *kulture* such as Orcs would go about determining a "father" when really in truth, orcs breed randomly rather than "mate for life." Would an app for such a pregnancy be acceptable? Is it possible to apply for a pregnancy based on a culturally fueled vagueness rather than a "loving relationship" as, it would be completely Un-IC for orcs to be all "snuggly" but, as was made very clear in Gruumsh's post on "kulture", orcs are notorious breeders. Keep in mind, this is all just curiosity and shooting the breeze. I would hate to ruffle any feathers with this post.

Also, I noticed that recently there was an IC adoption of a PC child. Is this something that will be an option for those who want infants? or will this just be a way to handle a parent child RP between two different players? I would think that the adoption of an infant ( meaning infant object/ infant mob) would be a bit unfair if the other players are expected to put in an OOC year of pregnant RP for the infant. Again, just rambling.

Ooma

Kelemvor · Post by **Kelemvor** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:47 am

I took your question on gestation and shorter IC time for orcs to be a continuation of the discussions above Ooma, apologies. To address your specific question then

1) Pregnancy ICly...

Human gestation period is approximately nine months
Elven gestation periods are longer
Orcish gestation periods are shorter

The 'pregnancy length' thread gives some deduced gestation periods based on comparing race average life span against humans and using the same ratio on the known nine months

Race / total length of pregnancy / duration of each stage
Elf / 24 months / 2 months 20 days
Gnome / 16 months / 1 months 24 days
Dwarf / 15 months / 1 months 20 days
Halfling / 7 months / 0 months 24 days
Human / 9 months / 1 month 0 days
Half-Elf / 12 months / 1 months 10 days

These figures are not canon, merely educated guesswork on the part of a DM

So yes, ICly the gestation periods vary.

However, the fact that the IC length of a pregnancy varies does not alter that OOC roleplay time that we like to see.

2) An orc pregnancy roleplay would be applied for in exactly the same fashion as any other, though I personally would not want to see one. Our female Orc PCs on the game do not represent the norm. These are the females of the species who have gone beyond being breeding machines. Either they have done their bit and moved on or they are barren and out to prove something.

Likely I'm not as well informed on Orcish upbringing as those of you who play orcs more regularly, but I imagine an Orcish pregnancy as being less of a roleplay experience than for other races. I'd also guess that there would be no parallel of the infant/toddler/child progression since the common view of orcish childhood years is the ceaseless competition, fighting and harshness of the pit upbringing.

3) The IC adoption of a child was applied for. (and the request roleplayed in great detail before being applied for.) Our decision was to allow that application because of the IC circumstances on which it was based. Circumstances which were arrived at through long hours of consistent roleplay which for us was comparable with the kind of dedication we expect in pregnancy roleplay.

In light of all of this, we felt that this application could be allowed without any cheapening of the pregnancy and baby roleplays which other players are involved in.

Ooma · Post by **Ooma** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 5:43 pm

It is interesting... that you would say yoouo do not want to see an orc pregnancy. I would hope this is not the general feeling... as I see no reason an orc RPer could not make it just as VIABLE an RP with just as consistent RP as any Preg RP on the game. I would think that the assumption of the orc females being Sterile and immune to breeding at this point would be very wrong. IMHO. Just because we don't have
"ORC lovin" going on and just because Orcs are not the kind of race where you RP snuggly, hand holding, cuteness does not mean... that an Orc pregnancy could not be done.. well and appropriately with MUCH RP. Basically it seems here that one is saying that because Orcs are a hateful evil group they should not be having babies

*ppfffffft* When I last checked we had a pregnant Lovite lol Not exactly a goodie group there either.

GRANTED... I do not think hit would be squishy cuteness RP but... I see no reason that it should be ignored as a possibility. I think if you read Gruumsh's perspective of Orc KULTURE which.... I assume... is the basis for Orc RP since he is the imm who deals specifically with Orc RP. It is clearly stated that the motivation for orcs to do all that they do is to reproduce, make as many of the society as possible so that they may "succeed" in realizing "world domination". SOoooo with that in mind I think it would be sad to roundly dismiss the possibility tht some player might want to apply for this. and that somehow, It could not be done in a way that is accurate and well RPd. It is a sad assumption by many that those who play orcs RP less

BLEH!! shame on you KEL!!!!

SOooo in closing I would say It would be a shame to rule out the orcs for Preg RP...indeed it would be a shame. One would think, with a well written, detailed app it should be just as viable as any other app.

and... on that note I am off

Ooma

Amalia · Post by **Amalia** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 10:01 pm

I think the point concerning orc baby production was that pregnant female orcs are basically treated like baby factories-- whereas a female orc PC would presumably (hopefully?) have garnered more respect than that. I could see an orc pregnancy RP where an orc PC deigns to allow her own impregnation in the expectation of creating a superior or "elite" baby whose breeding from both the father's and mother's side is strong (especially considering medieval understanding of eugenics), rather than just mass-producing and creating a mob tha thins itself out, but I'd definitely think a pregnant PC orc would have to be a "special case" in some way to avoid being grossly objectified.

Kelemvor · Post by **Kelemvor** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:31 am

As with all things, even Imms are entitled to their own personal opinions.

If it was the decision of the majority to allow an Orc pregnancy application then I would of course support it in every way.

Lovey-doveyness or lack thereof did not come into my reasoning and it was not specifically the evil nature of orcs which I felt would hinder such a roleplay. It was more the nature of their society and the parenting potential that concerned me.

Oh and just a gentle nudge here, but please don't keep referring to the rolepay and/or applications of other players to query our decisions or to support your posts.

All applications are decided on their individual merits.
(The ones with the least CAPS emphasis, girlish giggles and breathless paragraphs are the ones we approve *inno*)

Isolrem · Post by **Isolrem** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 7:49 pm

Kelemvor wrote:As with all things, even Imms are entitled to their own personal opinions.

Is that supposed to mean Imms are entitled to all things?

Anyways, I think since pcs in the game are based upon irregularities, and since pregnancy comes by application anyways, I don't see why there should should be a ban for pregnancy of any race and/or circumstance.

Time inconsistency is just an unavoidable feature of the game - seeing as it takes the same time for two characters to talk about the weather as for another to walk from Waterdeep to Berdusk...
There's no point dwelling on it, and the game doesn't lose much fun because of it.