FK Guide, PDF Group

Dalvyn · Post by **Dalvyn** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 8:11 pm

A wiki that more than one person could update would be very good to have too, but I don't think that a wiki could serve the same purpose as this kind of pdf.

A wiki, much like the help files in-game or on the site, is like a big encyclopedia where you can find information on anything and everything. It's useful as a dictionary, as a place where you know that most of your questions will be answered. We sure need that.

A pdf to guide newcomers to the game, on the other hand, does not need to cover all the topics, or be complete. It just needs to take more or less the newcomer by the hand and walk them through their first steps on FK, and list various topics that they might want to learn more about later. It's a bit like one of those ABC books that are used to learn. Things like links between subjects, information on the history of FK and precisely how it differs from the Realms, or major events that happened on FK do not really have their place in a newcomer's guide. They would be perfect for a wiki though, on the other hand.

As for navigability, PDFs can contain internal and external links, it's possible to perform a search on them, and so on. They do have those options.

Lathander · Post by **Lathander** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 8:15 pm

Solaghar, you are welcome to attend and I can add you to the project. Just curious though, did your e-mail to applications not go through or did you not send one?

A wiki might be a good idea for all the things you mention. The last one we had got closed down I think. My understanding about the PDF book is that it should read like a book, but one with references and graphics to help. I don't see this as the be-all/end-all publication on FK; rather, it is a newbie guide that puts in another format some of the things found in the help files, in game and on the forums that would be useful to a newcomer primarily.

Dal, was that your original intention or do I have it wrong? Given Dalvyn's comments, we'll keep my second posted time, tomorrow night (or day depending on where ya live!).

Japcil · Post by **Japcil** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 8:22 pm

If pdfs are made correctly aka Illustrator, with the new update of acrobat you can search the pages and for those who have illustrator can easily edit them. I work with pdfs and adobe all the time so im biased towards pdfs.

Dalvyn · Post by **Dalvyn** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 8:23 pm

Yup, that's the initial idea (though it's up for debate as well): give a pdf with all the information that a newbie might need, and perhaps include pointers to places (help files, wiki, "ask") where they might find more information about specific topics later. But yes, one of the specs of this pdf is that it would be incomplete, so the newcomers are not lost in all the options and possibilities.

Mask · Post by **Mask** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:09 pm

I think a wiki is a better idea as well - we already have one, for example, and anyone with a web browser can update it. It is also easy to include data from other web pages or sources so that it is always up to date.

There could be a 'start here for newbies' link which provides a 'view' and 'path' through the wider wiki touching only on subjects that are of interest to a newbie.

I find it difficult to believe that anyone would be interested in printing out a pdf about a mud and learning about it offline, rather than as they were using it. It kind of sounds like a solution looking for a problem.

Lathander · Post by **Lathander** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:09 am

I perfectly see Mask, Oghma and Solaghar's points about a wiki or web-based solution. My only real desire for a pdf stems from the fact that it can be read offline (printed or otherwise), is self-contained and is designed with only the new player in mind.

It is great to have resources available when playing, I completely agree. I also suspect though that there are some players who like to read things offline. Or during time when they have no internet access. An example: I bought a new camera this summer and downloaded the manual (ignore the fact that it came with a printed manual) and some extra tips on using the camera. I read the manual pdf while on a lengthy drive to our vacation spot (er, wife was driving of course).

This really should be our first discussion and it doesn't need to be lengthy if we hash out the main points here. It is rather pointless to discuss what should go in the document and who will be responsible for particular content until we decide on a format. Polling those you know who are new to the game can help.

Shava · Post by **Shava** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:53 am

Hi, Lathander asked some newer players (under 6 months) to post their opinion on this and I'm among them, having only started playing the end of August.

I've ready through all of the current thread and though of my own opinion to add. Why don't we do it both ways? I know it can be a bit more work, but can turn out to work rather well.

Basically we make the new player's guide and a wiki for the game, with a segment with all of that same new player guide info in it. So basically you give the new players an option of how they want to go through it all. I know that after I go through character generation and the New Life path (of any game) I'm rather tired of staring at a screen, though some people may not be. So you can provide people to read and print out a pdf file on the guide, and read at their leisure offline, or continue online in the wiki format, or in the pdf just on the computer.

With having a segment in the wiki of all of that (one for the whole game if everyone still want to do one of that), it allows even older players to go back in reference without having to load up Acrobat Reader really quickly, especially if they're helping someone else through the game for just one or two questions they don't quite remember the answer to.

As I said, it might be sort of double the work, but once you really have the guide written it's just a matter of formating (adding links and such to the wiki segment). And updating the guide might not necessarily be a high priority like a wiki for the whole game, since when that is written it shouldn't change much unless there are some fairly major changes done that it deals with a character in their first 24 hours or 1 week of the game, like basic commands and such.

It's just another idea to put out there, since as I said, once it's written, it's just a matter of formatting into either or both formats. But the wiki section all hinges on possibly having a wiki for the game (which I think would be really cool and would cut down on spam in going through the help files on the game while I'm doing something else). But there is my 2 cents that was asked for. Hope it all comes out well.

Aesin · Post by **Aesin** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:18 am

Lathander asked some newbies to give their input on the help files and I'm fairly new to this mud. So let me say how I learned what I have so far.

I first learned much in the game itself, by the newbie temple and asking others. Then I came across the online help file and spent a lot of time going through it as it is easier than in game help file.

Though my highest char at the moment is only lvl 12. I like the fact that I get free rez from lvl 1-9. That helped me much as I explorer

I like the idea of a PDF to help new people, but I've noticed from reading the forum on the magic that a lot has changed recently in this game and a PDF may get outdated from game advances.

Wiki's are nice and remind me of the online help system that I spent much time on. I think the wiki would be easier for a new person to thumb through and learn. It would also allow them to come back and find an area quicker than thumbing through pages in a single PDF Document.

Perhaps with a wiki, one can have a simple walk through on each class. For example if I created a warrior instead of a spell caster as my first char, the wiki could guide me through more areas focused on warriors and brush the spell areas and vice versa if I wanted to learn more about spell casters

Just my 2 cents.

Glim · Post by **Glim** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:10 am

You could always have a wiki with a "newbies section" that will give a link to a pdf format version of it. A pdf and a webpage can be read the same way most of the time (i.e. if it isn't a pdf of a photocopied book). These don't necessarily have to mean, well, we will either have a wiki OR a pdf. You could always have both.

I prefer wikis. Especially with tabbed browsing. My favorite points are searching, cross links, and constantly and easily updated user added data.

Pdfs are great for books, but I always found adobe acrobat reader and such a bit of a resource hog on my low end computer, not to mention the less I have to download the better.

Tavik · Post by **Tavik** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:34 am

Alright, to clarify my post, I was requesting that the time be made half an hour later so 9:00pm your time Lathander. This is just a request. If others can't/don't want to wait till then, go ahead without me and have the meeting and I can get the specifics from someone, or hopefully catch the tail end of the meeting itself.

As for this being a wiki or a PDF, I'd lean toward PDF for the exact same reason as Lathander. I would have loved something I could read offline when I was new to the MUD. But seeing as how this looks to be all democratic (*mutters about being voted the "bring out your dead" guy*) I'll be happy to work with whatever seems to be the general want of the current new people.

Lathander · Post by **Lathander** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:08 am

That time works.

Dalvyn · Post by **Dalvyn** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:24 am

An example of a pdf guide more or less similar (as far as the looks are concerned) with what I had in mind: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=nw ... ail&id=133

Japcil · Post by **Japcil** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:09 am

I apologize for missing the first meeting. I somehow thought it was on the 11th not the 10th and decided to tear apart my system to upgrade to a quad core processor. Anywho im back now and shouldn't miss any future meetings.

Lathander · Post by **Lathander** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:37 am

The following people should now see and be able to post to the New-Player Manual forum.

Tavik
Mouat
Mariela
Gwain

Japcil

Larethiel
Imms

Please post over there verifying your access.

Japcil · Post by **Japcil** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:56 am

You didn't list me but I have access.

Lathander · Post by **Lathander** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:42 pm

What do you mean you're not on the list? Seriously, how could anyone miss your name. Look above, c'mon, really? You don't see it?

Glim · Post by **Glim** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:11 am

Jeez, Japcil, what's wrong with you?

On another note, are new people still being accepted for this? If so, I would offer to help.

Edit: Btw, Lath, nice touches on the quotes and red underline.

Japcil · Post by **Japcil** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:16 am

Someone's dipping in the trickster portfolio...

Larethiel · Post by **Larethiel** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:19 pm

Is this still topic of interest?

Tavik · Post by **Tavik** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 5:55 pm

We've got ideas worked out and I've been doing a little work on my own on it, but I think people have just gotten busy and this has been placed on the back burner. I'd definitely like to get working on this again and I have a ton of notes and ideas and such, but one of the concerns was that the game is changing at such a fast rate that by the time we get something finished and out to the public, it will already be outdated. That's a legitimate concern, but I guess my own personal interest and desire to see something like this out there prevents me from allowing this to dissuade me from it. If people are interested in getting this rolling again, I'm more than happy to start working with them on it.

FK Guide, PDF Group

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