levels below ten

Selveem · Post by **Selveem** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 7:26 pm

Dalvyn wrote:It's easy enough to make it so that the weapon master gives out free (plain) weapons to lowbies who ask for one. Would that help?

I don't feel so, no.

Yes, you can probably hit them with a weapon, but some characters should be fighting hand-to-hand (non-monsterous races, I mean) as part of their RP. I think it should be just as easy to strike something with a fist as with a weapon when equally skilled in both.

I can't be certain, but it doesn't look like that's the case.

Toronar · Post by **Toronar** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:03 pm

Longer learning curve usually makes players grinding.
50 level in 50 hours (50 hours grinding) is not something i would call fast.
50 hours grinding+ travelling + quests are good for 100 hours. 100 hours active playing, if you play 4-5 hours a day, means 20-25 days. You are distracted from RP for 25 days, because you need to level your character.

Aegir · Post by **Aegir** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:15 pm

I do tend to dislike the grind, as for the most part its something you do when you're not actually playing your character (not RPing or interacting with other PCs). Even when you group with others, there tends to be very little in the way of RPing, its just something that most people want to get over with.

I'm curious if there is a policy in place now regarding leveling "too fast". In the past, it was said that if you reached Lv 50 in less then X hours or so (I forget the exact time), you may be penalized for power-leveling. Is this still in place in any form?

Selveem · Post by **Selveem** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:44 pm

The general reprimand I heard of regarding this was that such players who made characters and power-leveled them (obviously judged differently by different people) were looked upon unfavorably when requests came in for special roleplay or other special considerations (such as joining a church's organization, or player-run guild - this included leadership positions, as well).

Mele · Post by **Mele** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:09 am

Lerytha wrote:With the problem of "I've lost my weapon it now takes an hour to bruised a dummy", I think so.

With the larger (and more worrying/detrimental) problem of lower levels being near impossible to hold any enjoyment whatsoever, it'd be like using a sponge to plug a gaping hole in a sinking battleship.

Sorry for frank words. :)

Quoted for truth.

Nedylene · Post by **Nedylene** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:41 am

Levels 1-10 should not be hard. IMO these levels are the preliminary to get some starting coin, get a feel for commands, learn how to fight and learn the basics. You cannot do anything before level 10... You can't join a guild, choose a faith.. nothing.

So, while my opinion may not be everyone's opinion, WHY are we making it so hard to get out of the newbie temple when it shouldn't be?

Sairaven · Post by **Sairaven** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:55 am

That's just it: We're not.

We're trying to figure out how to fix it and make it easier.

Selveem · Post by **Selveem** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:00 am

Nedylene wrote:Levels 1-10 should not be hard. IMO these levels are the preliminary to get some starting coin, get a feel for commands, learn how to fight and learn the basics. You cannot do anything before level 10... You can't join a guild, choose a faith.. nothing.

So, while my opinion may not be everyone's opinion, WHY are we making it so hard to get out of the newbie temple when it shouldn't be?

I have neither the time nor inclination at this moment to verify my own memory, but I believe am Imm or member of the coding team said that the leveling was due to some bug that was fixed. New players were leveling far too fast to even develop a real background or something.

Whatever it is, I still disagree with it and continue to stand by my belief that leveling shouldn't feel like picking an orfice for the torturer's pear (of anguish).

I would greatly like to see leveling go back to the way it was. There was no issue with fast leveling that I saw.

Nysan · Post by **Nysan** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:46 am

Not to hop off subject but, am I one of the few people who spend time leveling unarmed weapon skill in low levels for situations like the ones mentioned? Every single one of my alts (lots of time granted) has their trained to novice at least before hopping out of the newbie zone if nothing else but those rare chances my weapon is lost or I somehow become weaponless. *shrug*

Anyways, agreed with the old, dusty thread so far. My most recent alt hometowned in Shadowdale. Between fear of random mobs aiding the road bandits (fixed or not, still scares me after prior losses), roaming mobs off the road (shoo scary kobolds!), and the endless grind to reach anything with a 1 in front of it, level wise, I am almost dreading logging in the little fella.

Dalvyn · Post by **Dalvyn** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:55 am

I would think it might be better to consider the problem from another angle.

Instead of making levels 1-10 go by faster, why not make them more interesting?

- add in areas and quests where low level can group and have some fun;

- increase the amount of move points low level have; perhaps even change the way move points work and make it a set value that would depend only on the character's Constitution and no longer on the level

- perhaps increase the amount of hit points at low level, so living or dying does not depend on a one or two unlucky rolls.

Jaenoic · Post by **Jaenoic** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:59 am

I feel like making it easier to get to L10 would have the same effect as all the things you mentioned, Dalvyn, and be a whole lot easier to code.

Glim · Post by **Glim** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:09 am

The only difference I can think of, maybe, is that what Dalvyn suggested are things that he can do and making the levels go by faster are things he cannot? Meaning hard code vs. area code?

Would that be right?

Mele · Post by **Mele** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 9:08 am

Dalvyn wrote:I would think it might be better to consider the problem from another angle.

Instead of making levels 1-10 go by faster, why not make them more interesting?

- add in areas and quests where low level can group and have some fun;

- increase the amount of move points low level have; perhaps even change the way move points work and make it a set value that would depend only on the character's Constitution and no longer on the level

- perhaps increase the amount of hit points at low level, so living or dying does not depend on a one or two unlucky rolls.

It takes about an hour to two to get from Shadowdale, Tangled Trees, Westgate, Silverymoon or the Centaurs Grove to Waterdeep at that low a level. Changing that would help.

After you take your two hour walk, if you die, you're completely screwed into taking the walk again. This time naked and weaponless. Changing that would help.

It's not about how long it takes to get to exp. Well, it kind of is. I mean really, 40 hours for the begining 10 levels is a bit much. But all of the other stuff you have to deal with in those low levels make it pretty much near impossible to rp more than just sitting in a room. Want to go on a trip with friends from Ardeep to Tangled Trees? That's going to take you over an hour without fly. Everyone else is going on an adventure? You'll have to stay behind and mindlessly kill some dummies some more, and pray for SOME increase in your tnl. So on, so forth.

Nedylene · Post by **Nedylene** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:26 pm

Free Caravan rides for people under level 10?

Dalvyn · Post by **Dalvyn** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:54 pm

The question might be: why start in a far-away place if you have to come to Waterdeep to find roleplay?

Mele · Post by **Mele** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:10 pm

Not just roleplay. Guilds. School of wonder. Access to Faerdale. Markana's village, bard college. Faith managers.

It's not going to change the entirity of where people RP by making it so hard for levels 1-10.

Orplar · Post by **Orplar** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:16 pm

Waterdeep is not the only place that you have acess to Faerdale, and there are a few ways to get to and from Waterdeep without the long walk, it just depends on how resourceful you are.

I can thing of two areas that have relatively easy ways to get back and forth across the realms. Those two palces also grant access to Faerdale if you look for it.

So all in all, I dont think that is so much the problem as xp. I would be lucky to get to lvl 10 in 40 hours, I know it took a little more then 80 to get two of my alts past lvl ten.

Mele · Post by **Mele** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:17 pm

It's only level 8, in 50 hours at this point now. Not literal 10.

Selveem · Post by **Selveem** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:50 pm

Orplar wrote:So all in all, I dont think that is so much the problem as xp. I would be lucky to get to lvl 10 in 40 hours, I know it took a little more then 80 to get two of my alts past lvl ten.

Forgive my asking, but I don't want to assume; are you saying that 80 hours to get to level 10 is favorable?

Toronar · Post by **Toronar** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:16 pm

Nedylene wrote:Free Caravan rides for people under level 10?

I hear you, you believe the travell wouldn't be so long and boring if you could afford a caravan. But it is not true, sadly. As a new player i haven't had any problem to afford a caravan, but waiting the caravan took as long as travelling by foot.
Travelling, exploring the world is extremly boring. Less lag on movement, cheaper recall and fly scrolls would improve the game playability.
Insane time sink usually doens't make muds better.