New armour/combat code - questions, comments and bugs

[Zynarc]

Question regarding sneak attack:

Does it have any prerequisite skills trained?

[Kregor]

At least as far as resistances go, I'd prefer that stacking be still kept in. In a tabletop campaign, there is generally access to individual items with +4/+5, + other great amounts of resistance, so stacking is easily abusable. In FK, however, it takes two or three resistance items to get anything that will show an effect in reducing damage. Thus, if only one were to apply at a time, I'm not sure that they'd be "worth" using - especially when one could devote a slot to an AC increasing item instead.

That reasoning is just a little patch on a big hole, though. The reason that the applies on objects have always been kept low to begin with, is directly because of the fact that every object stacked applies on top of each other. The capacity to build higher apply objects is there, just unused because of the old system.

With the applies fixed to be properly treated like d20 style bonuses, this frees up the building administration to actually allow MORE generous magical equipment into the game circulation, perhaps even revisit some of the items in-game already, but most certainly newer, nicer rewards for worthy adventures.

This is the better way to go, and will actually benefit the player in the long run, INSTEAD of stacking up on every little, mismatched piece of this and that to rack up your bonuses, to be able to use ONE, larger bonus item to achieve the same goal. ONE set of bracelets to improve your wizards AC, ONE ring of fire resistance to up your fire resist, ONE circlet to improve your INT, etc.... So long as the applies stack, we can't offer that option, because the tendency will be to acquire the bigger bonus item, and still wear as much of the lower bonus stuff as can be. Once things no longer stack, then there's no temptation to do such

As far as the lower apply items, they should be "worth" it to less experienced characters, much like lower level spells are "worth" it to casters who don't have spells like Weird. It should be a progression in strength, just like your levels, hit points, and everything else.

[Dalvyn]

Re: Stacking

Currently, EVERYTHING stack, except for armour bonuses, where only armour bonuses of different types stack.

That means that if you have several +Dexterity items, they will all stack. If you have a +2 item, a +3 item, and a +7 item, you'll get a total +12 Dexterity, that will add up to your base Dexterity. Then, this final Dexterity score will be used to compute your final AC.

Re: I have this, (s)he has that

The "defence" command gives an imprecise approximation of your current AC. Imprecise in two senses. First, it uses names to cover (more or less) broad categories of numbers. Second, it depends on your wisdom. If you are not very bright in the wisdom department, you might overestimate your AC and feel overconfident in your defence.

Otherwise, if you are both standing (yes, sitting down reduces your AC!), naked, light load, with no combat mode set, and no active spell, you should most likely have the same AC indeed. If you think this is a bug, you might need to find someone to look into it.

Re: sneak attack

Sneak attacks does not have other prerequisites than being able to backstab. The current backstab skill is to be interpreted as "sneak attack". I'm not sure what the exact plans are, but my choice would be to remove the option to use the command "backstab" (since it's now included in sneak attacks) as well as the "circle stab" thing (since it's now included into the automatic sneak attacks as well).

I'd be interested in hearing some results about sneak attacks. Did you get a lot of them? Do they seem to be efficient in the long run?

Re: Resistances

Resistances still stack for the moment, but that might change once the resistances/saving throws system is updated. Note that changes in the systems imply changes in the builder policies.

For example, as a consequence of the current change in the combat system, AC bonuses to individual pieces of armour and to-hit bonuses on weapons might increase. (I haven't yet gone through all the files to change them - I've already had to go through all of them twice to fix other things to make them ready for this new system, so I'm taking a short break, but I'll do so in the following weeks - that might mean that things will still change slightly for magical pieces of armour). More precisely, a +1 AC bonus on leggings used to apply to your whole body; now, the +1 will only apply to leggings, so that bonus can be increased. Similarly, a +1 to hit on a dagger used to apply to all your attacks (which means that dual-wielders used to always benefit from the cumulated bonuses of their two weapons); now, it will only apply to attacks made with that dagger, so the bonus can be increased too.

If I have missed a question, sorry... ask it again.

[Selveem]

Re: I have this, (s)he has that
The "defence" command gives an imprecise approximation of your current AC. Imprecise in two senses. First, it uses names to cover (more or less) broad categories of numbers. Second, it depends on your wisdom. If you are not very bright in the wisdom department, you might overestimate your AC and feel overconfident in your defence.

Otherwise, if you are both standing (yes, sitting down reduces your AC!), naked, light load, with no combat mode set, and no active spell, you should most likely have the same AC indeed. If you think this is a bug, you might need to find someone to look into it.

I am now aware, since yesterday afternoon, that this command is wisdom-based. Nedy is a priest. I'm certain she would have at least 18 wisdom. I don't know Selveem's exact wisdom score, but I do know that his is at least 18. Is 18 not enough to determine your own armor's protection?

And yes, the person I was testing with did meet all of your listed prerequisites for matching ACs. I will contact someone to stat us both when we're online.

[Sairaven]

Re: sneak attack

I'd be interested in hearing some results about sneak attacks. Did you get a lot of them? Do they seem to be efficient in the long run?

I seem to get a good deal of them when I am partied with other people, and they are very efficient for me, especially considering I am tending to pair them up with real juicy criticals.

Regarding backstab, however, I would like to request that it remain coded as a command to initiate combat from a hidden / sneaking position. Sneak attack is all well and good in combat, but to be able to perform a lethal strike from a non-combat position is also a bread and butter ability to a thief.

[Dalvyn]

You can get a sneak attack on your opening attacks, if your opponent does not see you at first, which is what backstab is supposed to be replaced with.

[Sairaven]

Ah!

Well color me surprised!

*looks around for a sneaky dagger*

[Tobias]

I was curious but if you where in another room and threw a dagger or shot a crossbow would you get a sneak attack then? Even if not hidden since you are a bit away they would not see you or expect it. although in the worldmap I could see this not working since each room is Leagues aka Miles away, but while in a city it is not to far to shoot or throw a dagger to hit someone.

[Aegir]

I was curious but if you where in another room and threw a dagger or shot a crossbow would you get a sneak attack then?

In d20 (which of course says nothing for FK, but still), you can sneak attack with a ranged attack if you're within 30', so just from my perspective, I'd say that wouldn't translate to other rooms.

[Kregor]

Yes, in abstraction, one room in Waterdeep is give or take 30'. So your sneak attack would have to take place in the same room as the target.

[Vibius]

I have noticed that shieldwork not longer allows to block incoming blows, but it increases your AC, is it intended to work this way?

[EDIT]

If so does your shieldwork skill increases your defence as it increases or it just gives you a plain bonus directly related to the quality/size/material/magical proprieties of your shield?

[Dalvyn]

You noticed right, and it is indeed intended that way.

Currently, I believe that the "shieldwork" skill is no longer used (though that might change in the future).

I know one of the future projects is to work on feats, especially for combatants, so shieldwork might get used again.

[Lathander]

I think that at the minimum shieldwork should be a prerequisite to being able to use a shield. Just as you can't really use a weapon you've never trained, the same should apply to shields.

[Belose]

Oh.. wow.. this is making my brain hurt.. I'll just hope that people who love me will look at me and let me know if something I have is good to keep or not. I'm not sure how to RP getting something Identified and whether it will help or not...way too much to keep track of..Or maybe I'll just bug the heck out of Kregor.. HE love me... don't you Kreg?

[Nysan]

Not to worry Belose, you're not the only one in a fog over all this. Only character I am certain about after this change is the one that doesn't own any armor.

[Tobias]

Ah one question Dalvyn. Is there an echo when a sneak attack is given? I have noticed critical strikes but none for sneak attack thus far.

[Moloch]

An echo is given, something along the lines of:

A make a sneak attack!

It will only be given when you actually perform one though

[Dalvyn]

Yes, as Moloch said, there is an echo, not only for the character performing the sneak attack, but also for the victim and the observers.

[Selveem]

I've also noticed dodge no longer seems to work after this change. It works for dummies, but not for players. I don't remember if it worked in a duel.

I don't know about parry. Could this be checked on?

[Selveem]

Just out of curiosity, were hitroll bonuses calculated with the new armor system? I've noticed when fighting the metal dummies, my first hit seems to hit but almost always (I can't say always, for sure, but I haven't noticed) my dual wielded weapon ever strike or my other four attacks hit.