New armour/combat code - questions, comments and bugs

[Tobias]

That means you have to train circle and back stab to use the new sneak attacks with how it's implemented now for those who are new to the thief class??

Also I was curious..I hardly see backstab's skill level raise most who have it at a level past journeyman are those who where here during when the skills leveled a bit faster. I have noticed the skill hardly goes up once it hits journeyman albeit true for all skills it just seems more so with this one.

Thanks for all the hard work by the by!

[Kregor]

The rate at which all skills "skill up" is a current staff discussion. Again, things may change.

[Cret]

Do the spells shield and armor stack? Both provide bonus to AC...

[Aegir]

Armor gives an armor bonus (same as armor, which means it doesn't stack with mundane armor), and shield gives a shield bonus (doesn't stack mundane shields). So yes, they stack with eachother.

[Dalvyn]

Do the spells shield and armor stack? Both provide bonus to AC...

What Aegir said, yes.

Check the help files for the spells. They should indicate what kind of armour bonuses each spell gives.

[Rawlys]

Dalvyn, thanks again for the informative post of local/general ACs and how the system works (especially with numbers!!). While reading, I came up with a question:

When using a skill that is 'armour effected' (hide, pathfinding), what local armour max dex bonus is it based off of?

Example:
Lets say that the skill is a dex based skill that is affected by the type of armour you where. If your max dex bonus on your body is +4, but you also are wearing a heavier armour type on your arms that has a max dex bonus of +2, I would assume that your max dex bonus would be +2 which would limit your dex based skill.

Is that fairly accurate?

[Dalvyn]

Skills that are affected by armour (as well as spell failure) depends on another value, that is computed from all the objets you wear I think. I'm not entirely sure whether this value depends on the armour type, or just on the material of the objects.

[Hviti]

All other pieces of armour (those worn close to the skin, or fitting loosely over things, or worn on other locations, like fingers/wrists/floating around, ...) do NOT help in any way with your AC. Pieces of armour shouldn't have any magical AC modifier of type shield, natural, or deflection.

Does this mean that pieces of equipment not worn in the "armour" layer or in finger/wrist/floating locations will not affect your abilities (e.g. casting spells, lockpicking) and will not be damaged?

For example:

a) bracers/bracelets that are medium or heavy armor - if worn by a rogue or wizard, will they not affect AC but still contribute to hindering skills/spells that are affected by armor "heaviness"?

b) circlets/hoods worn over helms or headbands worn under helms - since they do not add to AC, are they "exempt" from damaging?

c) items worn "under" which are defined as having an armour type - same as bracers; if they don't affect AC anymore, does wearing them still affect skills/spells that are affected by armor?

[Aegir]

a) bracers/bracelets that are medium or heavy armor - if worn by a rogue or wizard, will they not affect AC but still contribute to hindering skills/spells that are affected by armor "heaviness"?

I don't think these ever helped armor, at least not the items themselves. Enchantments do (and still do, so long as the enchantments are not to armor AC). The only difference is that they don't stack (so wearing two of the same item is pointless now).

b) circlets/hoods worn over helms or headbands worn under helms - since they do not add to AC, are they "exempt" from damaging?

I don't know if they're exempt from damaging, but I doubt they contribute to armor.

c) items worn "under" which are defined as having an armour type - same as bracers; if they don't affect AC anymore, does wearing them still affect skills/spells that are affected by armor?

I would suspect any item thats flagged as armor will affect spells/skills that are hindered by armor, but I've gotten the impression only the armor slot contributes to AC.

[Dalvyn]

Does this mean that pieces of equipment not worn in the "armour" layer or in finger/wrist/floating locations will not affect your abilities (e.g. casting spells, lockpicking) and will not be damaged?

It means precisely what it says, and nothing more (I'm a mathematician, you know).

I am not 100% sure, but I think that all pieces of equipment influence your spell failure chance, no matter what layer they are worn on.

I am not 100% sure either, but I think that pieces of equipment worn on non-targettable locations (e.g., wrist) won't damage (except from a breath/area damage source).

I am not 100% sure either, but I think that pieces of equipment worn on targettable locations, either close to the skin or fitting loosely over things, can still be damaged.

[Hviti]

One stat bonus which might bear looking into is that of holy symbols, as these no longer have a very discernible effect, especially when "overcome" by stat boosting spells. If other "higher stat" items are introduced, then their bonus may become even more moot. Perhaps they could be changed to have different effects than +stat?

[Aegir]

Theres also the possibility that the bumps that holy symbols give could be converted to a unique bonus type. Say, holy, or something. One thats not used anywhere else, and thus stacks.

[Dalvyn]

Or the option that holy symbols shouldn't give huge bonuses?

[Ralin]

What bonuses do holy symbols give now?

[Kregor]

Depends on the holy symbol, one might give +1 STR, one might give +1 INT, one might periodically affect a refresh on you with a warm fuzzy echo when you're standing out in the woods..

I would agree, to think that any affecting you get by a symbol is effectively a low-level magic item. So you get something stronger later, you still have the symbol as a token and sign of your faith, as well as a key for some faith-related facilities.

They really wouldn't HAVE to have any bonus at all, so I see no problem with them being overlapped eventually.

[Dapher]

I know it has been a while since this topic has been posted on. But something has come up that concerns me. I briefly posted on it in another thread, but it was dismissed, and rightfully so. But I think this is the right thread for it.

Having several faithed characters, I have realized that several supplicated items increase the same stat. For instance, your holy symbol increases on stat, and then you supplicate, and that first item you get increases the same stat, and your AC.

1) These items were granted to you by your patron for doing his/her will. You obviously have obligations to keep this item.

2) I have herd more than one FM say that these items were given to you for the purpose of being worn.

3) These magical items do not stack anymore.

Frankly I could go get another helm from another quest, wear that, and increase my luck. But then that goes back to that item was given to you by your patron, for you to -wear-

Looking at these three issues, I realize that between supplication gives you a cool lookin item, and probably better quality that most armour you can buy.

But, this is slightly defeating the purpose of your patron rewarding you if you cannot benefit from the reward. I propose that either the magical properties of these items are changed, or specific items have the ability to stack.

[Selveem]

I know it has been a while since this topic has been posted on. But something has come up that concerns me. I briefly posted on it in another thread, but it was dismissed, and rightfully so. But I think this is the right thread for it.

Having several faithed characters, I have realized that several supplicated items increase the same stat. For instance, your holy symbol increases on stat, and then you supplicate, and that first item you get increases the same stat, and your AC.

1) These items were granted to you by your patron for doing his/her will. You obviously have obligations to keep this item.

2) I have herd more than one FM say that these items were given to you for the purpose of being worn.

3) These magical items do not stack anymore.

Frankly I could go get another helm from another quest, wear that, and increase my luck. But then that goes back to that item was given to you by your patron, for you to -wear-

Looking at these three issues, I realize that between supplication gives you a cool lookin item, and probably better quality that most armour you can buy.

But, this is slightly defeating the purpose of your patron rewarding you if you cannot benefit from the reward. I propose that either the magical properties of these items are changed, or specific items have the ability to stack.

As far as I know, items are already being gone through one by one. Unless I misunderstood. But yes, there is one faith that gets nothing but +1 of the same stat on all three items, making the other two fairly less useful.

[Dalvyn]

But, this is slightly defeating the purpose of your patron rewarding you if you cannot benefit from the reward. I propose that either the magical properties of these items are changed, or specific items have the ability to stack.

Correct. Deities are supposed to be clever enough not to give items that don't stack.

That's part of the revisions I need to make to all areas. I actually was planning to do that only after the new resistances are coded. I might modify some items before then, I'm not sure yet.

In the meantime, I suggest to freeze all renames of magical items, because renamed magical items won't be updated automatically when the files are updated.

Actually, if you have renamed magical items, I would suggest that you simply ask for a non-renamed copy instead (watch out: items gained in imm-run quests are unique; it's better if you keep them as they are, since they might have been given special properties that you will lose if you ask for them to be exchanged for a standard item).

[Hrosskell]

Just a question, that I couldn't seem to track down elsewhere (lost the thread where Dalvyn broke down new AC and stuff). Have the changes to mithril/adamantium been brought in, and are they as per d20 standard rules (mithril = +2 to the dex cap for armor, +1 on attack rolls for weapons, always masterwork, etc. / adamantium = masterwork, superhard, +1 to attack rolls w/adamantium weapons, etc.)? Just wondered about the specifics on new materials, and stuff like that.

[Dalvyn]

Materials are still being examined (especially in relation with trades), but mithril and "elven" metal already increase the max Dex modifier of armour, yes.