Smithing and metal quality/condition?

Jzexleth · Post by **Jzexleth** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:41 pm

So there's some sort of hidden flag on smelted metal that makes it so that it is not always 'stackable' with other metals. While 15 pieces will stack when you have them in inventory, they do not always stack when you drop them on the floor.

This causes a major headache with armorsmithing. You need 7 pieces of metal to make most armors. If you have 6 of one (quality? condition?) and 1 of some other, you're out of luck.

Can we either have this flag removed or at the very least make it visible to pcs so that they can see that the metal isn't stacking and organize it in separate piles? As it stands, it's quite painful to have to constantly jockey around large quantities of metal until you have 7 identical pieces.

Tobias · Post by **Tobias** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:08 am

I also had a question about smelting..my elf has smelted some metal ore and all he gets is titanium? Does my skill level have to be a certain point to make elven metal?

Kelemvor · Post by **Kelemvor** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:20 am

Metal quality is dependent upon the original ore quality (linked to mining skill) and the skill level of the smelter.

This means that any improvement in mining or smelting skill whilst gathering and working your ore will probably result in several different quality values for the final metal.

As you noted, whilst the quality of an item seems to be one of the factors VT takes into account when listing items on the ground; the inventory command is not able to do the same.

The smithing check that requires all pieces to be of the same quality is the basis for the final weapon or armour quality. I'm not sure how this could be made to function if the check were removed - perhaps an average of the pieces used or a simple majority.

To completely solve the need to juggle metals would likely mean removing the link between skill and quality at the production level and just have final quality dependent upon smithing skill.

Personally, I think that that would remove a lot of the variety and interest in the process, but I'm a bit of a trade anorak so others may not agree.

For now, being aware of the affect of a change in skill whilst mining and smelting and dropping the ore to sort it should help to overcome the problem.

Selveem · Post by **Selveem** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:10 pm

I don't know how mining works, but I assume on successful mine attempt, an object with a specific vnum is created and placed in a character's inventory.

If it's a specific item with a specific vnum, wouldn't it be possible to edit the object's long name so that you can see what quality it is?

Kelemvor · Post by **Kelemvor** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:20 pm

Unfortunately, all ores use the same vnum W, all pieces of metal use the same vnum X, all smithed products of a certain weapon type or armor location use the same vnum Y & Z.

Each of the production or creation trades then merely renames the long descrip, short descrip and quality of that same vnum.

Jzexleth · Post by **Jzexleth** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:02 pm

I take your point, Kelemvor, but there's more than mining or smelting skill involved. There has to be some random chance involved as well. My miner is at Master in both mining and smelting, and when I smelted mithril ore yesterday I ended up with four distinct piles. And I haven't seen a skill increase in quite a long time.

I agree that having material quality and trade skill level affect the outcome of the effort is a good idea, but right now there are so many stacked variables that the number of permutations is huge.

Mining skill gives one quality ore. Smelting skill gives a second quality metal. Smithing skill gives a final quality of the armor. The ore mining affects the ore, smelting and ore quality affects the metal, and smithing and metal quality affects the armor...

I don't know. I understand it's complex, and I'm in favor of complexity, but when I spend an hour smelting 20 pieces of mithril ore and end up with 4 stacks of six different metal qualities, I don't have enough metal to make myself a pair of boots!!

Kelemvor · Post by **Kelemvor** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:11 pm

Bear in mind that failing to smelt a piece of ore first time changes the quailty of the ore, that's why you're getting so many differing metal qualities in the end.

Jzexleth · Post by **Jzexleth** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:32 pm

That explains the mithril then... That stuff is ridiculously difficult to smelt...

I'll do some experimenting with tin over the next few days. I very seldom see failures on that.

Tobias · Post by **Tobias** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:47 am

Hey KElemvor What about the thing with smelting metal ores? Does it rely on the mining skill of the person mining the metal ore that dictates metal or becoming elven or adamantine for elves and drow or is it a random smelt check that deems you have to have it at X or greater level if it's a chance to do it?

Kelemvor · Post by **Kelemvor** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:40 am

Smelting metal ore to titanium, elven or adamantium should only depend upon your race.

metal ore > human > titanium
metal ore > gnome > titanium
metal ore > dwarf > titanium
metal ore > elf > elven
metal ore > drow > adamantium

It could be a problem with the sub-race elves. That is, the code is checking for race 'elf' and finding 'moon elf' or 'sun elf' and so defaulting to titanium.

I'll check it out to tonight and get back to you

Jzexleth · Post by **Jzexleth** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:23 pm

Just out of curiosity, what do half-elf and half-drow get when they smelt metal ore?

Kelemvor · Post by **Kelemvor** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:29 pm

Titanium is the default. Only Elves, Drow and Duergar obtain something different. To some extent I'm left to guess on the adamantium as I've not seen that in action. I'll add it to tonight's investigation

Kelemvor · Post by **Kelemvor** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:33 pm

Smelting code is not currently recognising the sub-races (moon elf, sun elf, wild elf etc ) for elves and these races can not smelt metal ore to elven.

All races default to smelting titanium except for

race elf = elven
race drow = adamantite

mixed races smelt titanium as do duergar

I'll copy this to the bugs forum...

Tobias · Post by **Tobias** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:41 pm

Thanks Kelemvor!

Brodnur · Post by **Brodnur** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 11:03 pm

Just curious about the default for metal ore smelting down to titanium for dwarves, shouldnt it smelt to mithril, depending on the skill of the miner/smelter? My miner is only an amateur, so it may just be that she cant mine the proper ore for mithril yet.

Tempus · Post by **Tempus** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:41 am

Brodnur you are correct with the second assumption - there is a separate ore for mithril which you may not have found yet.

Duranamir · Post by **Duranamir** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:20 pm

Kelemvor wrote:Smelting code is not currently recognising the sub-races (moon elf, sun elf, wild elf etc ) for elves and these races can not smelt metal ore to elven.

All races default to smelting titanium except for

race elf = elven
race drow = adamantite

mixed races smelt titanium as do duergar

I'll copy this to the bugs forum...

Is this still a bug ?, as i have a character who is smelting Metal Ore to Metal not Titanium.

Duranamir

Smithing and metal quality/condition?

Smithing and metal quality/condition?

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