Raising and Raisees taking the time to rp

Gwain · Post by **Gwain** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 10:16 pm

I just want to remind players that when being returned from death with various spells and prayers there are some protocols both sides should try their best to observe.

Raising mean that you will be brought back to life, that means you will come back sore or torrid in some manner and should be rp'd throughly.

Being the one that raises you should also take into consideration the preparation for raising. The usage of several spells that allow you to visualize the spirit icly and return them to life. This kind of rp should not be rushed or done without consent of both parties. You should not just raise someone the moment they die, you should fully rp the exchange of the powerful prayer, the consent and the permission of both parties. The same can be said of using an npc priest for raisings when there are a variety of pc priests available.

Make sure that death is not a minor inconvenience, but a careful and serious undertaking in the return. Just because the code allows you to rush through it does not mean you should.

Selveem · Post by **Selveem** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 9:46 am

With respect to this topic, I'm suggest that the newbie temple training include how the Administration feels deaths and resurrections/raisings should be properly roleplayed. This will avoid confusion, set expectations, and allow said Administration to hold players more accountable.

Now, that being said, there are two things I would like to address with regards to this topic:

First: I've played here a long time so I have encountered many deaths. Some characters it is very easy to RP being raised from the dead, others, it isn't. Even to this day, I find it very difficult RPing Selveem being raised. He's fairly quiet and doesn't groan or moan much. He's been fighting against other humans since the age of nine with lethal weapons, so even deep wounds don't make him cry out due to the combination of his natural and adapted pain resistance. This is, of course, not to say he doesn't feel pain; he just doesn't react as most would.

In light of this, he'd be very solemn and quiet even after being raised from the dead. He would utter a prayer to Tempus and thank the person who raised him. That's about it?... I'm sure this would be considered poor RP, but it IS his RP.

Second: Most of the time people get raised, the first thing they do is wear all their equipment. In the past, I did this. Man, did I get bitched at. "That is poor RP! You were just raised from the dead!" Uh, why did you undress me you freak? You're (the priest) channeling the very power of your God's restorative abilities into the husk of someone who's fallen. As I see it, the reason you end up naked is due to the code's inflexibility. I don't think it's poor RP to wake up and dress yourself. Sure, it's a little annoying with the spam and all for the others in the room, but it should be expected. Why should I RP waking up naked because someone feels that's better RP? And, if that's the way someone feels about it, they should expect to have their name slandered pretty heavily.

Bear in mind I am not suggesting people are roleplaying improperly. These are simply my perspectives on the matter.

Peverell · Post by **Peverell** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:42 am

Selveem wrote:With respect to this topic, I'm suggest that the newbie temple training include how the Administration feels deaths and resurrections/raisings should be properly roleplayed. This will avoid confusion, set expectations, and allow said Administration to hold players more accountable.

That's a good idea. Even if it's just a little note along the lines of "if your character is raised from the dead/resurrected through magical means, you are expected to spend some time roleplaying the consequences."

I am lucky that my first/main character has never died (not yet anyway...), and at this stage if he DID get killed I feel I have a fairly good idea of what's expected of me RP-wise. But previously it did feel like people "glossed over" death... ie pretend it hasn't really happened, that - as Gwain said - it is a "minor inconvenience."

So, yeah, as Selveem said - something to let new players know right from the start that a bit of RP effort is expected (on both sides if a PC priest is doing it) after being raised from the dead would be very useful.

Horace · Post by **Horace** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:48 pm

I imagine this is more of a friendly reminder, as Gwain said, as opposed to a strict policy on the subject. Certainly you don't have to justify your IC actions to any player that isn't an admin/imm Selveem, I wouldn't worry bout it.

Just like you don't /have/ to smote showing a fancy way you're picking the lock, the command shows that you did it either plenty well or not so well...just a good reminder on what you can consider improving on if you're interested on bringing your roleplaying experience to a different level.

Like all that stuff you described in your post, (Selveem) you could put it into a smote so you aren't just hurriedly getting dressed, embarrassedly saying thank you in a meek voice, swearing to the gods that it doesn't normally happen to you, and then slapping a couple platinum on the table before leaving.

Liandria · Post by **Liandria** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:58 am

Now I was told by someone after mentioning the nudity IC that the naked-ness after death wasn't supposed to be RP'd. They told me it was only OOC that the raised body no longer wear clothes, unless the death somehow dropped pieces of equipment onto the ground.The spell brings the spirit back into the same body, according to what I've read, the corpse is then just a biproduct of the coding. It is an akward bit of RP.

Nedylene · Post by **Nedylene** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:23 am

the consent and the permission of both parties.

While in general I do agree with this I think that this, above all, should be taken as a soft rule. There comes times when a person died in a hard to find place and people come across it and rp ensues. I personally do all I can to find out who the person is as well as finding someone who knows them to talk. I have raised some (I believe two) without being able to speak with the ICly beforehand. Neither time have I been regretful for doing it. In fact both times led to incredible rps with incredible people and both times I knew
Icly and Oocly that noone else was around who could help this character. As a last resort, once things have been thoroughly and fully researched, I believe that you do have the last ditch option to raise them without consent if you are fully aware of what consiquences might befall you.

Dranso · Post by **Dranso** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:59 am

Now as in consent from both sides, say the person asked the priest to go get their corpse and raise them the priest says yes. Then the priest doesn't have ask correct? Never made much sense to me that priest had to ask if they could raise the corpse anyway if the person that wanted to be raised told the priest to go get their body.

Leohand · Post by **Leohand** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:19 am

Agreeing with Nedylene. It is always best to try to get permission before raising the dead, but in some instances you may neither know the character, nor know anyone that does know them, at least that's online. My priestess character will go to extraordinary lengths to try to get permission, even to the extent where she will try examining the corpse, and using the physical characteristics to try to contact the spirit. This has happened, and worked, once. Also, when asked to recover a body, she will still ask if they wish to be raised just before the actual raising. But that's the way I RP her. In certain situations, I can see the need to do first, then ask questions after, it all comes down to the personality of the character. That's my two cents. I do agree with Draso, that the priest doesn't have to ask about raising the deceased, if they were asked to recover the body. That, to me, is an implied permission, but it is the role-play of my particular priestess to ask.

Dalvyn · Post by **Dalvyn** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:19 am

Liandria wrote:Now I was told by someone after mentioning the nudity IC that the naked-ness after death wasn't supposed to be RP'd. They told me it was only OOC that the raised body no longer wear clothes, unless the death somehow dropped pieces of equipment onto the ground.The spell brings the spirit back into the same body, according to what I've read, the corpse is then just a biproduct of the coding. It is an akward bit of RP.

Just a word about this specific topic ...

There's nothing OOC in the nudity. There might be something OOC about most people's reactions to nudity.

You (generic you, not you Liandria) must remember that FK is a medieval world, where you can meet people in the streets that are so poor that they can't buy clothes. And when you are that poor, clothes aren't a priority, really.

I would think that public nudity would not be frowned upon back then. Sure, richer people might have a wide variety of reaction upon seeing poor people: some might consider that nudity is a sign of their being dirt poor animal-like sub-par beings [quite like how some people consider beggars and homeless people nowadays], others might consider that they are down-on-the-luck people that need help, and so on. But I would think that the first reaction would be nudity = poor, not "oh my god! I saw a piece of your breast/masculinity". People wouldn't cause a ruckus for seeing a piece of breast on TV back then. Those were medieval times.

Social codes only formed later, or in specific groups of people. For example, if someone barges in naked in a high-society gathering, attendants might be shocked, but not because of the nudity in itself, but rather because this nudity is a sign of being poor that does not really fit well with this social gathering (just like if someone attended a high-society gala while wearing torn jeans and a dirty T-shirt nowadays).

Anyway, that was a bit of a side-remark.

Gwain · Post by **Gwain** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:35 am

In the old days, they called it the crime of vanity to show something and stand out. It usually resulted in something being cut off or a day in the stocks...or a caning. More for making a scene. But as the post above says some people were so poor that they had little cloth but rags and sat in huddled masses...just to expand on what Dalvyn said.

Larethiel · Post by **Larethiel** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:58 am

I agree with Gwain's first statement wholeheartedly. Being raised is something that has a great impact on a character. Codewise you just hang around in the Fugue and wait to be raised/resurrected/etc. Icly, if you follow a god you are, at some point, torn from this deity's realm, the place you probably never want to leave again, your heaven

. It's better to be asked if raising is okay.

As for the nudity...I always thought for the ritual of raising someone, which is imo not a low one, the body is to be washed/cleaned and treatened with anointing oils or stuff.

Duranamir · Post by **Duranamir** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:56 am

Is it then IC that all your cloths fall off when you die ? or is it considered something that the raising priest does as part of the ritual to raise you from the dead ?.

This could have IC repercussions as one the things that happens is that your holy symbol falls off, revealing itself in the process if it is concealed. Should this be considered IC ?.

Duranamir

Sairaven · Post by **Sairaven** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:20 pm

Having died just the other day, I can tell you that when I put my holy symbol back on (after finding an appropriate place where I was alone to do so), and attempting to conceal it, I discovered it was already concealed.

I can understand if someone looks at your corpse (or, specifically, IN the corpse) and sees the symbol.

A raising could prove... problematic for some of the more hidden members of faiths.

I agree with Duranamir: What is the protocol for concealed items while being raised?

Selveem · Post by **Selveem** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 1:36 pm

With regards to Dalvyn considering the nudity IC, I completely disagree.

Raise Dead wrote:"You restore life to a deceased creature. You can raise a creature that has been dead for no longer than one day per caster level. In addition, the subject’s soul must be free and willing to return. If the subject’s soul is not willing to return, the spell does not work; therefore, a subject that wants to return receives no saving throw."

Casting time for Raise Dead is only 1 minute. If there is a ritual required, it would be listed and/or casting time would be increased. Do you strip someone out of heavy armor and clothing/padding beneath in time to cast your Raise Dead within that 1 minute?

Resurrection works in the same manner, but takes 10 minutes.

There is nothing stating that nudity is required. Ritual is not required. If you have the favor of your God, he answers your calls. Elaborate ritual isn't required. Consider modern Catholicism. Does your God only answer your prayers when you attend High Mass?

Now, I'm not saying there is (or isn't) a God. But I can tell you that IF there is one, he is fickle at best and chooses what prayers to answer and when to answer them. There does not seem to be a direct correlation between the ritual and the result.

I think this too is how FR/FK works. However, in FR/FK, you get the prayer. That's the all and end all. The only reasons why your prayer wouldn't work is because you lack the components, attempt component conversion, are afflicted by something imposing your ability to pray, or are in a dead magic zone. Something of that nature. Otherwise, you are guarenteed to succeed in your prayer. There is no rolling to see if you are successful with these unless the spirit is unwilling to return. And even then, it's just a save they're rolling with no magic equipment to help them.

The way I understand it, the nudity that ensues _IS_ an OOC inflexibility in the code. It can't be changed (from what I was told years ago) because even if when resurrected you were forced to "wear all," it wouldn't work properly because FK has layers and multiple items of same wear location.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

Selveem · Post by **Selveem** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:40 pm

Also, if the priest were disrobing the victim, the equipment/items wouldn't stay "inside" the corpse. Being inside the corpse is sort of like saying the player's still wearing them.

Horace · Post by **Horace** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:43 pm

I think you're getting worked up about nothing, dude. Everyone I've ever rp'd with just rolled with whatever the recently deceased went with.

Selveem · Post by **Selveem** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:49 pm

I'm not even emotional regarding this. I'm stating facts as a counter.

Personally, I don't care either way. I would suggest, however, that if this becomes a "house rule" it be propositioned in the manner that it is a code limitation and thus should be roleplayed as part of the raising/resurrection ritual.

Harroghty · Post by **Harroghty** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:17 pm

I think the spell -prayer- itself is adequately represented by the coded processes. I may be off the mark on extending Horace's remarks from the process of recovery to the actual casting of a "raise dead" or "resurrection" spell but allow me to reference it and correct me if need be, please.

Just like you don't /have/ to smote showing a fancy way you're picking the lock, the command shows that you did it either plenty well or not so well

That being said, I think that what needs to be acknowledged is the solemn atmosphere that such a prayer should demand. You are asking a deity to restore someone's life. Something that, from an entirely matter-of-fact, scientific stand-point, is impossible in real life.

There are some good comments by Timaeus, and others, on the subject in this thread from 2004:
http://www.gallwey.com/fk/board/viewtop ... &highlight