Range Touch Spells and Flying

[Glim]

Currently, as it does not seem to be the case, I think that using a touch spell while flying should either:

A. Negate your flying

or preferably if it is possible

B. Allow the other person to begin melee with you.

My reason is, flying is powerful, but that advantage should still mean you have to be careful with what you cast.

Thoughts?

[Horace]

I don't see how anyone could argue with that - it's the reason all wizards hate touch spells. Every single one that has ever existed.

But if I'm not mistaken, if you cast an offensive spell on someone don't they already get to initiate combat - touched or not? Or did you mean that if there is more than one mob in a room, they'll be able to attack as well?

[Nysan]

I was under the impression that touch spells already initiated combat when used by a flying character. At least that is the case when any of my characters, under the influence of fly or air walk, use a spell like chill touch on a mob. What mobs are not fighting back? Cause they definately should be taking swings at anyone in touch range.

[Selveem]

It does, but if the person flying is in Killmode Nofight, the mob/PC they attacked does not get a counter-attack as a spell cast is not a real round in FK.

This could be fixed by one of two ways:

1: Not allow touch spells to be cast by those affected by fly spell without forced landing.
2: Force 1 full round of combat (+1 attack of opportunity) for those flying who just slip in for a touch attack and fly back out.

Just my opinions.

[Nysan]

Do not use nofight alot in traveling, interesting. Then I suggest an 'out of range' type echo for touch range spells while in flight.

[Pakur]

Don't attack mobs when you're killmode nofight and casting?

[Nysan]

Don't attack mobs when you're killmode nofight and casting?

Quite a few people are of the mind that you should not be able to use your weapon and cast spells at the same time and use nofight as their method of attaining it. *shrug*

[Pakur]

Ah, had no clue.

[Glim]

I really like the idea that you would have to land first before you can do a touch attack, actually. Much better suggestion, Selveem.

[Duranamir]

Land or at least get in range of retaliaton for the touch spell attack yes. Then fly back up out of range and possibly cast ranged spells with no chance of retaliation from hand to hand weapons.

Currently i think any spell cast at a MOB engages you so casting magic missile while flying at a giant will allow the giant to beat on you for the rest of the combat or until you flee.

Using mode nofight does not seem right on mobs.

[Selveem]

Hm, I could see uses for it when fighting mobs.

For instance, ranged spells such as fireball shouldn't force landing.

If you don't have nofight turned on and you attack a mob that's land-based with no ranged weapons, it will put you in melee too if I'm not mistaken.

[Nysan]

If you don't have nofight turned on and you attack a mob that's land-based with no ranged weapons, it will put you in melee too if I'm not mistaken.

Correct, Nysan uses flight spell (air walk) regularly and favors a melee weapon. Any attempt to attack a mob puts him into combat in killmodes kill and stun.

[Brodnur]

I agree with most of what has been said so far, though it should have a modifier for the flying/airwalking caster being shrouded/invis/hidden. Unless that also brings the caster into visibility, then give a surprise penalty to the targets to hit roll.

[Selveem]

I agree with most of what has been said so far, though it should have a modifier for the flying/airwalking caster being shrouded/invis/hidden. Unless that also brings the caster into visibility, then give a surprise penalty to the targets to hit roll.

Currently on FK the spell of greater invisibility is unavailable.

A caster casting should indeed get their flatfooted bonus for the initial attack unless the subject is a rogue of high level (which cannot be caught flat-footed). Alternatively, if the attacked has taken blind-fighting feat, they maintain their dexterity bonus to AC. If the attacker (who is invisible) is attacking someone with blind fighting feat, they also do not get their normal +2 bonus to their attack roll unless the invisible attacker is engaging in ranged combat.

If you are speaking of a surprise attack, the attacker who is invisible will still be able to attack the unsuspecting flat footed (even if they have blind-fighting, but not if a high level rogue I believe). Per d20srd.org: "if you are not aware of your opponents and they are aware of you, you’re surprised." "Determining awareness may call for Listen checks, Spot checks, or other checks."

If the prey happens to fail their opportunities for awareness, the surprise round happens and the attacker gets to strike but the unaware prey may not.

[Hviti]

Wouldn't "ranged touch" spells not fall under this? You roll for a touch attack but the attack itself is ranged (ray, beam, orb, etc.). For "touch" touch attacks, this would make sense.