[Spell] Hold Person/Monster

[Nysan]

Minor thing... Can we update 'hold person' and 'hold monster' so they allow the "afk" command to be used by characters under their effects? It is an OOC command and I really do not see a reason why any spell should impact OOC commands.

Similar point, characters under hold spell effects can meditate. That does not seem right.

[Selveem]

I'm still of the mind that this spell, in FK, is very, very overpowered. Especially in PVP, but just as bad if a mob (auto GM level when cast by mobs) casts it on you.

It allows for one chance to save. If that is failed, you are stuck the full amount of rounds the caster is able to hit you with. There are no further saving throws.

Further, the length allows for 30+ casts while the person is held. Assuming 1 spell per round (though I know it isn't), that's 30 rounds - 10 more than allowed by D&D standard. Could last more, but after 30 rounds of barraging spells with saves/resistances on equipment still not functioning, I went under before I could count too far past 30.

I hope those concerns are looked into as well.

[Nysan]

Hehe, mention a possible command error and Selveem goes for the spell's throat.

Stepping away from "FK tries to be like FR" for a second, there are a number of spells I do not think NPCs should cast because of their power/effect and the balance problems they present, hold spells are on that list.

Not commenting on PvP usage for two reasons:
1. I do not see or hear about pkills often, which leads me to believe PvP is rare and far between. I will never suppose changing a spell cause someone got beat in a dual and wants something change. I'm talking RP involved, going to send you to the Planes PvP.
2. In the PvP we do have, I question how often hold spells are used.

Anyways, started this thread to address some command concerns. I'll gladdly discuss spells and their effects any time, as long as the reason for this thread is not lost in the process.

[Selveem]

My apologies. I saw the name simply (and only) said [Spell] Hold Person/Monster and it was in the game mechanics section, so I thought it was fair game and unspecific.

Sorry to derail your thread.

[Horace]

Yeah, but at least it's equally ridiculously powerful in pen and paper as well. But in pen and paper the compensation is that you're almost always with a party, unlike FK

[Nysan]

My apologies. I saw the name simply (and only) said [Spell] Hold Person/Monster and it was in the game mechanics section, so I thought it was fair game and unspecific.

Sorry to derail your thread.

No, no. Go for it. Jump up and scream from the mountain tops. Just... don't mind me tossing in reminders.

[Duranamir]

Personally i have used 'hold' in PvP and been hit by it in return. Mind you this was in mage Vs mage combat and we threw pretty much everything at each other. The holds were inconvenient but did not actually sway the duel either way partly due to being prepared (still spell anyone ?) and partly because we were on Killmode spar and the actual time it lasted was fairly irrelevant, we just played it out.

I would say though that it is wonderfully effective spell agains non spellcasters and mobs, if you can hit a giant or a fighter with a hold and he fails his save he is just so much target practice for whichever other spells you want to use. But this IS how it works in the source books. If you wanted to make it "fairer" a random duration might be approriate so that you are never quite sure when it will wear off and are taking more risk the longer you rely on it.

Duranamir

[Selveem]

I can't agree with you.

FK: 1 save upon being victim of spell. Duration: 30+ rounds.
D&D: 21 saves - one upon being victim of said spell. 1 every round thereafter. Duration: up to 20 rounds.

[Horace]

Keep in mind Selveem, we also have like 500 Hp. Where as in DND it's significantly less...like a fraction. It evens out. In pen and paper hold is a one shot kill - no combat goes longer than a couple rounds anyway unless you're doing some theatrics.

If core dnd is the benchmark, the hold spell is appropriately devastating - especially to someone without friends. Teleport is instantaneous, so you can get friends that way if any are about...or offer nonfriends to merc out for ya.

[Duranamir]

In tabletop if you could hold someone then there was nothing to stop you plain chopping the head of the immobile soon to be corpse, though it has a while since i ran any D&D i seem to remeber there were some Coup-de-grace rules for this kind of situation which involoved a fortitude save or out and out die. (please correct me if i am wrong).

In FK apart from actually not initiating any actions all your defences and HP are pretty much there, i have seen held and even stunned mobs dodge with the best of them. So we are as usual somewhere away from tabletop.

In FK killing a held Mob still entails hacking and blasting away all its HP it just does not get to hit you back. Though i do agree that a 30 round flat duration is high, there should be a degree of randomness and risk i.e. 3 - 18 rounds pherhaps or something like that ?. Long enough for the spell to be useful but with a chance it may wear off and the target wake up and start bashing !

Duranamir

[Erwyth]

Dura you are I'm quite sure you are right about Coup-De-Grace within the PnP version of D&D. If something is paralyzed, asleep, knocked unconcious, etc, then you can perform the action of "The Coup" as I call it.

So since, we cannot do that in FK... I would agree with your randomness factor. Or an alternative. Another method would be to have the saving throw pop up every round? Whichever is easiest.

The feats to increase saving throws could also be added within the game? Perhaps that might help out a little bit?