A few questions about Drow RP

[Velius]

Hey everybody, I read Homeland a few times and was looking over the rules of the game, and looking across to internet to find the answer to these questions...

1) Male noble vs. Commoner RP: I've only seen this scenario work out with Female nobles and commoners, and was curious how the RP would work out with a male noble and a commoner, particularly weak male nobles (A lot of the drow players I've interacted with are commoners, and I don't know how it would normally happen, and I want my RP to be correct)

2) Drow Cruelty and Player Killing: A lot of conflict amongst drow ends with death. Drow kill to obtain higher rank in society, and when a fight ensues it will most likely end with the death, etc... So what are the rules for drow, since death itself is a large part of drow RP and society. In the books, the you are fine so long as no one sees it happen, which I why I pose the question.

Thanks!

[Caelnai]

Good questions Velius! While we're awaiting comment from the usual suspects, I'll try to start this off....

1) From a commoner perspective, a male noble is still a noble, and carries the weight of his House to some extent. (If the House finds a particular son useless, they will dispose of him themselves. ) Males do have their uses as wizards, soldiers, doorstops, sperm-doners...the usual stuff. But then again any true devotee of Lloth also knows that *all* females are superior, so it is a battle of cultural value vs. pragmatic reality.

There are certainly ways to be polite while showing your strength, just as you can be superior while admitting some need. With drow much is unsaid anyway, and while the birth hierarchy exists, individuals can increase their own power to make themselves more valuable...and live longer. What better way for a female commoner to improve her station than gain information or exposure to a House through some weak noble male? I really like the complexities of noble male/female commoner drow RP. There's a lot there to work with.

2) In FK drow-land the logistics of actual gameplay alter what you might think of as "Correct Drow RP." Since no one can agree on "Correct RP" anyhow, it is always better to react to what is happening IC-ly than expect other PC's to behave as you think they should act.

In FR or FK, trying to slay every drow you meet would not only be impractical it would make for boring RP. Cooperation, spiced with deception, can attain mutual goals, obtain later favors, or just convince someone to let down their guard. Use the drow you meet to strengthen your skills and get the stuff you need...you can always dispose of them later. I like Cunningham's Starlight & Shadows trilogy for some depth on this.

Please edit if this is too much in-game...but I recall when 5 of us trekked to Ched, fighting off various dark beasties on the way. We needed each other, as none could make the trip solo, and if one of my fireballs happened to skate a bit close to another priestesses' head it certainly wasn't fatal...just a gentle reminder.

PS - Could we get this thread moved over to "Races"? Thanks!

[Duranamir]

Speaking as one of the "usual Suspects" i guess and having played a number of Drow both noble and commoner.

Basic rules

A commoner be they male or female MUST show outward respect to any noble, openly disrespecting the nobility especially the priestesses is a reason for summary and instant punishment.

A male or female noble MUST show respect to a priestess even of another house for the same reasons.

A priestess only really needs to step carefully round the Matron Mothers.

Matron Mothers are only limited by Lloth and the need to maintain there own houses position.

And obviously Whatever Lloth says goes, without question. If she says to destroy an entire house and everyone in it, it is done.

However......

Actual power is not completely dictated by rank for example a commoner who is the current pet of a Matron mother has a certain degree of reflected power to the extent that it would be unwise for even a priestess of another house to kill/maim/play with them without very good reason and backing from there own House. In fact the offender might even be handed over to the Matron Mother by there own house to prevent a house war.

Also males may have power from granted positions for example the house weapons master who is usually a male has a position the equal of a junior priestess. Not something he should rely on as the Matron mother can remove him whenever she wants. Which then opens him up to the revenge of all those he lorded it over.... (what fun it is being a Drow )

Also if that commoner has real power whether magical or martial and defeats and or kills you then you are in a sticky position, if you reveal that failure they will most probably be killed by your house in revenge but you will look a fool and weak !

This means that nobles and priestessess should think very hard about how they deal with those lower in the pecking order, there target may have links or influence with others within the nobles own house, or high up in other houses who may object to there favorite being damaged without some good reason. This is even potentialy true of half bloods and surface siders, so best to be careful and find out first rather than have an irate Matron Mother breathing down your neck later.

To survive a commoner needs powerful Patrons within the noble houses to protect them from the random nastiness of the lesser nobles. Problem is that such influence and favour is a fickle thing and not to be relied on, and there is almost always someone higher who has more influence than your Patron. So commoners are always striving to raise there profile with the noble houses and gain more and more powerful patrons.

Which also brings up the Bregan D'arthe an organisation of commoners who due to there usefulnesses to all the houses give a degree of protection to its members. Enough protection that a minor noble better be careful when dealing with them for two reasons, firstly the commoner you just oppressed may have sneaky and very deadly friends and secondly you may have just endangered your own Matron Mothers plan to use Bregan D'arthe for something. Neither are going to improve your position in the house or your life expectancy.


Drow killing other Drow

Each and every Drow worth the name wants to have power (insert mad cackle here ). They all want to be the top dog and do not care one bit for any other Drow and would quite happily kill them if they thought they could get away with it.

How to get power varies between the commoners and nobles somewhat but in general the principles are the same claw down those above you while protecting yourself from the inevitable attacks from below.

Lloth and the Drow society reward success, the winner of a conflict is always right, the loser obviously wrong.

So why do the Drow not descend into a mass blood bath ? how come they actually have a functioning if warped society that can create cities, wage wars and all the other things we think of as civilized.

Firstly the underdark is insanely dangerous it requires a degree of cooperation to just survive, so simple self preservation provides a counter to the desire to kill other Drow. Using other Drow to get what you want or cooperating in the short term to accomplish a common goal is then certainly to be considered. This same principle applies to nobles killing commoners of there own city unless the nobles want to start farming there own food ?

Secondly Drow have an admiration for subtly, openly killing someone is not "cool" having them have an accident or arranging the situation such that they die without your own hands ever getting dirty is far more to be admired.

Thirdly if you start killing off others left and right someone is going to notice and get annoyed, that someone is most likley a priestess or Matron Mother, then you are going to end up dead.

Fourthly making your enemy look stupid or weak amongst there peers by can be more satisfying. It can raise your status as well as lowering theres. They will know what you have done, and watching there frustration when you meet is far more satisfying than just seeing a corpse. Even better manipulate two of your enemies into conflict, how can you lose in such a situation ?

Fifthly a noble has to think of the house as well as himself. It is not worth killing everyone above you or below you in the house if you end up weakening the house so much that it is easy prey for another house. To a degree the same thing applies within a city, no use doing some much damage to people or property that the city falls.

This leads to a state of continual plot and counter plot where information and a carefully placed word or rumor, can be a far stronger weapon than the strongest Adamantine sword. Your web of support and influence a far stronger protection than full plate armour.

RP examples (my own opinions)

Drow who are members of the same house will tend to cooperate against external threats even if they are manuevering for position against each other within the house. This extends to nobles at times cooperating between houses to make sure the commoners remain in there place. And the entire city cooperating against an external threat.

A Drow may help another Drow if he thinks it will gain him something later, rather than from the alturistic reasons you might expect from a surface elf. The result maybe the same, but the thought process that gets to it are certainly not !

Drow are in general polite to other Drow, does not mean they like them, just means that they are trying to work out there relative positions within the society and who is superior. Once you know your relative positions then the real fun can start.

This is my opinion of being a Drow and Drow society if you want to experience it just make yourself a Drow character and come play in the darkness

Duranamir the Drow

[Velius]

Can I ask 2 last questions?

1) What if someone (commoner or noble) disrespects you and you know you can beat the crud outta 'em, is that a reason to start a fight? (I'm not saying you should go on a killing spree every time someone disrespects you, just go to killmode stun and knock 'em out and show them who is the better, or go to killmode kill... beat the crud outta 'em then patch them up when they are incapacitated )

2) The big one + examples! = What if someone challenges you to a battle you know as a fact you cannot win (commoner and noble, noble and noble)?

There was a scene in the novel Homeland where Dinin got mad at Drizzt and drew his weapons, Drizzt drew his weapons and let Dinin know that only 1 person would come out of the room alive, and Dinin started thinking to himself that if he attacked and won, the threat to his Elder Boy position would be gone and Matron Malice wouldn't question the punishment. But, Drizzt could fight really well and there was a high chance that he would kill Dinin, but if Dinin didn't carry out the threat he would give Drizzt confidence in future struggles. Then Vierna, a female noble of the same house, stops the fight before it happens and Dinin was happy.

I understand that is a special situation though, since Dinin is the elderboy and Drizzt is the secondboy. Also, there was another scene in the book, the surface raid, when Dinin told his brother Drizzt he had two kills. The other drow spoke up and said something along the lines of, "No, I killed the elf before he even drew his blade" and Drizzt knocked the drow in the face and declared, "If you ever steal a kill from me again, you will die" the drow did not do anything, and thus Drizzt looked good, he looked bad.

Lastly, what would a drow male noble (a weak and young one going through his ten-years in Melee-Magthere and a seasoned veteran) do if a commoner challenged him to a fight in which the noble knew he could not win. Is it a crime within itself for a commoner to challenge a noble to a fight? Does it make the noble look extremely bad if he doesn't accept the challenge even though he knows he couldn't win?

Thanks for all the help!

[Caelnai]

Good questions again! ...and it gives me a soapbox to discuss some FK realities that are very important to sustain drows here on FK with such a small player base.

1) I'm of the opinion there's hardly ever a good reason to start a PvP fight. If I had the strong position, I would use that threat to make the lesser drow do things I don't want to (like fetch things from the Dark Dominion.) If a commoner has a position of strength on a noble, why would he kill/humilate him? Better to parlay that incredible opportunity into advancement! (Also remember there should always be a "way out" for any PvP situation on this game.)

However, even if I was a PvP fan, I would always use killmode stun or spar in the Underdark unless it was a pre-planned, special rp. In FK's Underdark, the support doesn't exist to recover from death like you can with a surface PC. Until you reach very high levels, you'll often stay dead and have to make a new PC if you get your drow killed.

2) The drow answer to this is to never be caught (dead) in such a situation. As Duranamir noted, drow society is polite to the extreme. While deep down, everyone may want to kill each other, they don't...because cooperation is required for survival. Many stories in novels are the exceptions to the rule, but even that Dinin/Drizzt situation is a good anecdote to show how a weaker drow was supported by the heirarchy (Vierna) to keep two warriors alive vs. one...which was better for the House.

Yes, a commoner disrespecting a noble in Menzo should expect a slap-down. In fact, the noble probably wouldn't have to get her hands dirty as every mob/slave/drow around would take care of the offender on the spot. It's probably a crime and certainly stupid, because a drow noble could always call on his enormous House resources before it got to that point.

An interesting reality of drow life here on FK is that the long-term drow players, and much of the recent construction, is skewed to the "male side." Most of these players could easily kill the few semi-active priestess PCs. IC-ly they don't because at this point on the FR timeline in Menzo the Matrons are too entrenched to openly attack. Part of RP is also respecting what isn't coded in the game, but is "behind the scenes".