[Skill] Woodworking

[Erwyth]

I propose that wood workers be able to create the items needed by smiths for weapons such as maces, etc. Having the smith be ALL inclusive means less RP between trades... As well as less RP for the wood worker. Tell me what you think!

[Horace]

I don't have a strong feeling against it - but I generally like the idea of keeping things as simple as possible. Gordon Ramsey taught me that. I love that man.

[Nysan]

Explain, if you would. Quite a few weapons already require a decent knowledge of woodworking AND weaponsmith to craft them. Since a smith needs knowledge of both to craft said weapons and thus be able to craft any woodworking components, how would adding more materials to the mix generate character-character trading? If you are talking about the weapons that do not require knowledge of both trades, what would you put in and why?

[Erwyth]

No, no I believe you misunderstand me. Instead of the weaponsmith needing to be able to craft say, the handle of a mace, he simply purchases the handle from outside resources. Then, with his knowledge of metal (because no wood worker could possibly fuse the two) he simply forms the mace. See my example below.

IE:
construct part mace mithril
construct part handle yew

together:

construct weapon mace

I understand the current system is FAR simplier and this would be a fairly complex rework of the trades but... It could be done. Though the above would allow more RP between tradesmen I believe. Already miners can give gems to lapidarists (sp?) as well arrowheads to fletchers. Though to be a serious woodcraft you pretty much MUST be a smith. Or RP that you only fletch bows of a sort.

[Nysan]

Had a general idea what you were saying, but I wasn't sure if you were aiming for a complete rework of weaponsmith or merely addingg in some extra parts.

In its current state, I see no need to add any new components to weaponsmith or woodworking to make items. However, if they ever rework the whole system, I would be all for more inter-play between trades. I would go a bit further and suggest leather straps and ties (leatherworking) for armorsmithing if they ever completely redid the system for example.

[Erwyth]

A valid point! I would also agree on your statement of leather for metal armour. I hope my idea brought about your idea? A cycle of ideas upon ideas! I <3 forums. Back to the topic at hand.

I believe that the swords etc, should not need to be reworked. They could easily stay as they are. Though all the weapons that require woodworking could be seperated and allow for trading between the two crafts. I see no downside, except that... You are forced to RP. Or, learn the wood working skill. As well as the obvious recoding.

See any other downsides?

[Elenthis]

I support the entirity of what Erwyth suggested. If anyone has ever played "Eve online" you know that its biggest claim to fame is a real-time true-form player-based economy, completely unparallelled by any other game. Complexity is not necessarily the base component, but player to player interaction is. Having one player need another really makes for some good times. And depending on how the auction-house is completed (code-wise) this could even be implemented in such a way that players who are on at low-player-count timezones could benefit and contribute greatly. I highly endorse the idea of LOOKING INTO what minimally code-intensive changes could be made to better the trades system.

Side note: I hate buying glass flasks from NPC's to brew. PC-glasswork rah rah rah!

[Erwyth]

I enjoy the idea of crafting being required among the players. It adds an element to role play as well as an actual feeling of merchantilism. No longer can someone be seen as "twinking" while crafting. On top of that, no single character can control the market. What is the point of a ranger wood crafter, if a dwarf has, mining, weapon and armour smithing, wood working, smelting, and lapidary.

[Namic]

I agree and disagree with this idea, first off with the agree. I think it would be a great idea to start inter-tradeing amost the differant trades of the realms. That would bring alot of rp and going out to find the right people to trade with. It would give all classes a possibility to get into the trade market so to speak. Now the disaggrement, Well if a character/player wants to invest the time and energy into working all those trades to get better at them why take away from all the work they did. With the correct people anyone can learn any trade since teachers have started. (not counting brewing and such as a trade) So if a character/player wants to start a trade go out there and find someone that can teach you it and that in result will create rp as well.

*Hope I am not misreading the point behind topic*

[Nysan]

Completely forgot about this thread....

There is nothing wrong with creating inter-trade crafts. I greatly enjoy the RP it presents and would like to see more. I would not like to see it put in simply to force players to deal with each other. No idea is a good idea if the motives behind it are forced interaction. Pushing people never turns out well.

There is nothing wrong with a character having multiple trades, as long as it is RP aligned for them to do it. A dwarf with mining, smelting, armor/weaponsmith, appraise, and maybe woodworking makes sense RP-wise. Dwarves have been accepted as crafters decades ago in source materials. The comparison of a ranger with woodworking vs a dwarf with all those trades is a bit one-sided. It doesn't make much sense for a ranger to have all those trades, rangers tend to not want spend days and days chipping rocks in tunnels and working forges. They tend to lean towards nature trades and they do in FK, unless you want to ignore fletching, skinning, leatherworking, and so on as trades.

Inter-play is good. Forced interaction or "he has it, I want it" mindset is not so good.

[Erwyth]

I agree that FORCED interaction is a bit much. I never meant for my suggestion to be as such. Please, by all means, allow dwarves to continue having access to all possible trade skills. As well as every other character should have access to possible trade skills. But, the fact I am attempting to point out is:

There is no RP between tradesmen. Maybe a fletcher and a smith? I know of no other interaction. But, for those of us who will roleplay our character as not ever having the desire to sit in a dank tunnel with a pick and get all dirty....

Please allow us the opportunity to ply our trade on the market. The same goes for skinning, not just wood working.

As well, there are some young dwarves out there, who might enjoy creating flails, etc, who are still working on their smithing skills. They don't yet have the time to practice wood working.

[Nysan]

There are a few inter-trade markets between tradesman besides the arrowhead market. There is a number of crafters that buy metals/gems because they either do not have mining/smelting or do not have the time/patience to mine it themselves, for example. There could be more, obviously, but don't dismiss what is already there simply because you have not experienced it.

Nothing can be done for inter-trade dealings on a small scale. The only thing that will "fix" trades so all trades are as viable and desired as the metal market is a complete overall of the trade system; refreshing the list of craftables and their components. Any small tweaking would likely lead to annoying more than enjoying. I would love to see a complete overhaul. Player-merchants is an RP aspect poorly represented in FK, in my eyes, and I feel a trade refreshing would be a big step to changing that.

Now, on something mildly off-topic. The nature based trades are set to have small markets by design compared to the metal trades. Their markets and trading opportunities right now could be increased dramatically if they were made less restrict. Metals had a poor market in days past, then means for most of the playerbase to learn metal trades were put in and the markets exploded. There was more raw materials in-game, more people had metalwares to sell, more people bought them. I have no doubt that the nature trades, like skinning/leatherworking, would have a similiar increase in activity if more people had access to the trades. It is my experience that crafted items are preferred to NPC stuff (if quality isn't too different) with most folks. I prefer armor made from skins to generic stuff from an NPC whenever possible. At the very least, there are better stories behind crafted armor.

[Erwyth]

Ok I mislead you, I realize that people sell gems and ore, or bars of metals. Its grand that people who use the precision forge are able to purchase items from smiths. But, this topic of conversation leads to my closing statement.

I now ask, does Gilain have wood working? If he does not have wood working, did you ever try to craft items that needed the wood working skill? The way I see it, people will just ignore those weapons. They don't need it to gain skill points. How can you truly be considered a Grandmaster smith if you can't even craft a flail? IMHO .... bad RP.

I understand that metal has the largest market. I also understand that woodworking and skinning have almost no market. Which is my purpose for this thread. How can we make the system better...

I like your idea of creating a larger market for wood working and skinning. Anything to open up the trades I only suggested that wood workers be allowed to construct pieces for weapons, to induce RP between the tradesmen. Instead of the current system, in which smiths and miners being the all-inclusive-go-to-person for just about... everything.

[Nysan]

Gilain has six trades centered around smithing and yes woodworking is one of them. He has sold a number of weapons requiring woodworking or the weaponsmith/woodworking combination. But thats what he was built for, a full fledged smith and merchant. *shrug*

Did not place woodworking in my idea about nature trades. Trades like skinning and leatherworking would benefit from the increased access. Woodworking is already wide spread but doesn't go anywhere because over half of its crafts are not desired by the average character. Outside of ranger folk, how many people do you know that use bows or long ranged weapons regularly? How many people want/use the boxes and crates woodworking makes? On the flip side, how many people would have a use for player-crafted leather armor? There in lies the difference between woodworking and the other nature trades. Though, I suppose woodworking would get a small boost in demand if fletching was made public... got to get cheap starter bows from somewhere.

Woodworking is not a stand alone trade in my eyes. Like smelting, it is completely out of place without its parent trade... in woodworking's case its weaponsmithing.

[Julthain]

I like this idea. Not only would it create more RP between tradesmen, create a better economy, it would also make it to where not any one character has to know all of the trades to craft something. This way they could focus all of their time on one or two trades and progress those significantly, instead of having to juggle four or five of them at a time and keep them relatively at the same skill level.

And just to throw my two cents in on the parts thing... what about metal studs? Leatherworkers could use them to make studded armors.

As a side note, it would also be interesting to be able to add gems in the mix as far as weapon smithing and armor smithing goes. Perhaps make it to where you have to know a bit about the lapidary trade to do so or make it to where lapidaries can set gems into already crafted items.