Rogue skills

[Atheliyan]

There is something I have noticed over the last few months with my rogue since started playing again back in May after a two year break. It seems some of the changes in the code have affected the most useful skills of rogues. The dodge skill was the first one I noticed, It seems it is now pointless to even know the skill as even I as a master at dodge rarely ever dodge. Another thing is the parry and riposte. They never work anymore either, and the thing with the uncanny reflexes sensing an attack, what good does that do if you still get hit. Its like oh they are about to hit me...Ouch! Ok? If it were any other class it would not be such a concern, after all, fighters and rangers have strength and 4th or even 5th attack on their side. What does a rogue get? We have dual wield yes, and we get up to 3rd attack, but it is my belief that with a rogue the ability to dodge is one of the most important skills. After all, that is one of the reasons we wear light armour (or are supposed to) and train high dexterity. A rogue is supposed to be quickwitted and quick to avoid attacks. I do not know if this is a permanent change, if we are just going to have to accept that rogues no longer do the whole "dodging thing" except once every 5 rounds. I just figured it was worth a try to speak out about it.

[Aldirack]

I have to agree with this problem. When a level 46 fighter beats someone that is a rogue player and is gm at almost all skills for fighting. I have to agree the rogues have lost something along the way. I hope that there is some way for this to be tested. Might someone look into it further to better the rp of the rogues?

[Erwyth]

Hmmm, I don't know what kind of armour you are wearing. If its light, studded, or even medium... This has a huge affect on the dodge skill, this I know. This I've tested.

As for "uncanny reflexes" did you mean "uncanny dodge"? This only allows you to maintain your dexterity bonus when being attacked by an invisible or unseen foe. Something that you retain over my Ranger. You also must still past a roll check vs them, which involves initiative. I'll use quotes from D&D PnP to give you a general idea:

Spot / Listen checks allow you to know that an opponent is there. If you attack me, though I hear you or see you... I still lose my dex bonus (flat footed)

But, in the case of rogues; with uncanny dodge, you sense the attack, with uncanny dodge, and all sneak attack damage is negated. Same is the effect with true sight, detect invis, etc. All sneak attack damage is negated.

Sitting, sleeping, resting, kneeling, prone, these are what cause someone to lose their dex bonus. As well as a hidden character.

Hope this helps!

[Alvirin]

Trust me, me more than any I would like to see rogues claiming the place in FK that belongs to them, yet I accept that toe-to-toe fighting against a foe isn't their speciality, with a D6 of hp and three attacks + dual wield, and most often than not with low strength because they have to place his stats in dexterity and others, certainly that isn't their speciality.

That changes when you are grouped and someone else is attacking your target, then you nail him down, but with a D6 are still very suceptible to damage.

In the rulebook it is stated "A rogue is a character that doesn't fight and if he does it does it dirty", while certainly can exist such thing as the honorable/scholar/whatever rogue, a rogue is a character that has emphasis in his stealthy skills over anything else, and I think that these skills should be looked at, as some skills that have been suggested in the past that would benefit them, ie: Bluff, Divert and so on.

[Erwyth]

In PnP version there is "bluff" and in battle you can "feign" catching your opponent off guard, thus their dex modifier is dropped, allowing for a sneak attack. Correct me if I'm wrong, though I believe it normally takes a full round to "bluff" your opponent then you may attack. That is, unless you have the feat which allows you to bluff and attack in the same round?

I think bluff would be wonderful for a rogue, in combat, except that it would be completely abused and cause the rogue to be overpowered.

[Moloch]

I still think rogues should get the Tumble skill .