Is it possible to wield polearms one-handed while mounted? If so, how is it done? I haven't found any that work like this.
[edited to correct my typo]
Polearms vs. Mounted Polearms
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Andreas
- Sword Grand Master
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Polearms vs. Mounted Polearms
Helm keep thee.
-
Granel
I don't know for inside the mud but I can tell you in rl that a knights lance is heavy, and balanced like a walrus on an needle. a mounted lance is a huge, and bulky implement that absorbs the full force of a blow to your opponent so I'd say that it would take both hands to wield it...
However, and I'm basing this on the riding stance principle, It is quite possible to wield a lance on horseback with one hand. In the old days lances could be balanced and crated with bell shields that protected the hand of the rider and balance the ungainly weapon at the same time. In the same sense a lance could be lowered and raised to shift the mass of the weapon, so you might see a knight riding his mount with his lance completely vertical and then lowering it as he charges. It makes sense somewhat since on hand had to hold a shield or the reins if you wanted to control the animal under you or avoid picking wood chips out of your chest afterward.
Moving on, The spear itself on horseback is a beautiful thing a masterless work of power and fear. Any man would find that a spear can be well balanced or poorly balanced but, it should be wielded in both hands because, 1) The spear is thrust so momentum is needed, only in the final second can one let go with at least one hand 2) the spear must be guided, unlike a lance it does not rest in the nook between the arm and the armpit it is in the open and the point can unbalance or be overbalanced by the shaft. On the other hand, I would expect that a rider could carry a spear in one hand if he is just riding so he can control his horse.
Javelins are very interesting, potential throwing weapons they stand a bit different than brother spear. I've seen javelins at the Olympics soar through the air effortlessly and I've seen a friend throw one so soundly that it was driven into and out the other side of the body of an elk at twenty paces (though the forces and recoil broke my friends hand). The javelin is a balanced work, it can be near weightless depending on how it is fluted or it can in hand be a marvelous light spear, intimidating because any raging warrior can duel with it one handed because of balance and masterful because it is as if the point is an extension of the shaft. I can see a man galloping up to a goblin leaning over one side, carefully maneuvering his horse with one hand but pinioning a goblin with the other. If any mounted polearm is one handed then the javelin is the closest match.
Mounted Halberds are strange, pretty much axes with long shafts. I would think that only foot soldiers used them and ceremonial guards for that matter, but anything these days is possible. I would think a one handed polearm halberd would have a smaller shaft sort and a thinner blade on it. Otherwise it would drag in the dirt beside the rider.
Pilum, I think you'd fine be fine, riding with a small one, though it might be a last resort. I think I read somewhere about roman cavalry using them because five pilum did the work of ten spears. basically take one jab it in an enemy and repeat.
Scythe is a weapon like the spear, so you can ride with it one handed but when going into battle you take it in both of your handstand swipe at foes.
That's about all I can think of right now, I hope it helps.
However, and I'm basing this on the riding stance principle, It is quite possible to wield a lance on horseback with one hand. In the old days lances could be balanced and crated with bell shields that protected the hand of the rider and balance the ungainly weapon at the same time. In the same sense a lance could be lowered and raised to shift the mass of the weapon, so you might see a knight riding his mount with his lance completely vertical and then lowering it as he charges. It makes sense somewhat since on hand had to hold a shield or the reins if you wanted to control the animal under you or avoid picking wood chips out of your chest afterward.
Moving on, The spear itself on horseback is a beautiful thing a masterless work of power and fear. Any man would find that a spear can be well balanced or poorly balanced but, it should be wielded in both hands because, 1) The spear is thrust so momentum is needed, only in the final second can one let go with at least one hand 2) the spear must be guided, unlike a lance it does not rest in the nook between the arm and the armpit it is in the open and the point can unbalance or be overbalanced by the shaft. On the other hand, I would expect that a rider could carry a spear in one hand if he is just riding so he can control his horse.
Javelins are very interesting, potential throwing weapons they stand a bit different than brother spear. I've seen javelins at the Olympics soar through the air effortlessly and I've seen a friend throw one so soundly that it was driven into and out the other side of the body of an elk at twenty paces (though the forces and recoil broke my friends hand). The javelin is a balanced work, it can be near weightless depending on how it is fluted or it can in hand be a marvelous light spear, intimidating because any raging warrior can duel with it one handed because of balance and masterful because it is as if the point is an extension of the shaft. I can see a man galloping up to a goblin leaning over one side, carefully maneuvering his horse with one hand but pinioning a goblin with the other. If any mounted polearm is one handed then the javelin is the closest match.
Mounted Halberds are strange, pretty much axes with long shafts. I would think that only foot soldiers used them and ceremonial guards for that matter, but anything these days is possible. I would think a one handed polearm halberd would have a smaller shaft sort and a thinner blade on it. Otherwise it would drag in the dirt beside the rider.
Pilum, I think you'd fine be fine, riding with a small one, though it might be a last resort. I think I read somewhere about roman cavalry using them because five pilum did the work of ten spears. basically take one jab it in an enemy and repeat.
Scythe is a weapon like the spear, so you can ride with it one handed but when going into battle you take it in both of your handstand swipe at foes.
That's about all I can think of right now, I hope it helps.
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Andreas
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RE: Polearms vs. Mounted Polearms
I guess I wasn't specific enough in my request for information...
Being a Medieval/Renaissance re-enactor, I'm well aware of the variety of different polearms available, their uses and their pro's and con's.
I'm asking from a purely CODE standpoint.
All the polearms that I've found on the game are WEAR_BOTH. In my mind's eye, it looks awfully stupid to see a mounted knight using both hands to hold a lance when we all KNOW that wasn't the case.
I was told before that once you have the MOUNTED POLEARMS skill, you'd be able to hold polearms one-handed when mounted. I haven't found any that'll let me do this. I think the problem comes with the weapon size. Polearms are size LARGE which forces a size MEDIUM creature (in this case, my PC) to hold it with BOTH hands. And some of the ones I've examined only have the WEAR_BOTH flag (it is held in two hands or whatever that line says).
As for RL....
Jousting lances were quite well balanced for use on horseback. In fact, that was the only way they COULD be used. And the saddles used then are nothing at all like the saddles of today. Back then, they were huge, elaborate affairs designed to keep the mounted knight IN the saddle. There was usually a brace on the pommel for balancing the lance, much like an oar lock.
Spears and light lances could easily be used one-handed while mounted. Games of skill often included spearing/lancing rings or fruit from posts running down the list at a full gallop. This taught the knight accuracy. What good is the full momentum of a charge if you can't hit anything? I've seen the US International Jousting Champion (hehe, he's Canadian) charge at a full gallop atop his Friesian (for those who don't know, this is a large breed of show/draft horse) down the list and perfectly spear 10 rings the size of an apple. It's a breathtaking exhibition of skill!
Being a Medieval/Renaissance re-enactor, I'm well aware of the variety of different polearms available, their uses and their pro's and con's.
I'm asking from a purely CODE standpoint.
All the polearms that I've found on the game are WEAR_BOTH. In my mind's eye, it looks awfully stupid to see a mounted knight using both hands to hold a lance when we all KNOW that wasn't the case.
I was told before that once you have the MOUNTED POLEARMS skill, you'd be able to hold polearms one-handed when mounted. I haven't found any that'll let me do this. I think the problem comes with the weapon size. Polearms are size LARGE which forces a size MEDIUM creature (in this case, my PC) to hold it with BOTH hands. And some of the ones I've examined only have the WEAR_BOTH flag (it is held in two hands or whatever that line says).
As for RL....
Jousting lances were quite well balanced for use on horseback. In fact, that was the only way they COULD be used. And the saddles used then are nothing at all like the saddles of today. Back then, they were huge, elaborate affairs designed to keep the mounted knight IN the saddle. There was usually a brace on the pommel for balancing the lance, much like an oar lock.
Spears and light lances could easily be used one-handed while mounted. Games of skill often included spearing/lancing rings or fruit from posts running down the list at a full gallop. This taught the knight accuracy. What good is the full momentum of a charge if you can't hit anything? I've seen the US International Jousting Champion (hehe, he's Canadian) charge at a full gallop atop his Friesian (for those who don't know, this is a large breed of show/draft horse) down the list and perfectly spear 10 rings the size of an apple. It's a breathtaking exhibition of skill!
Helm keep thee.
I can see where you are coming from code-wise there Andreas, but can offer no solution other than to say that I have noticed the same thing.
On the other hand - I have also felt it to be more than reasonable. As you should well be aware, the majority of commonly used polearm weapons that were wielded in one hand (the balance often being taken by a locking mechanism) were a "one shot" only deal. Lances where used for a charge, spears sometimes the same but oft thrown, once that first initial charge was done, then a one hand weapon was drawn and the knight fought upon horseback (assuming of course they started with a shield in one hand with their lance).
To my mind once the code starts and you are battling "toe-to-toe" (which is how the mud works) then a knight stabbing people with a lance that they are wielding in one hand seems a little far fetched (especially since they are no longer charging). In this case the code forcing you to use the strength of two arms to wield such a weapon seems appropriate. I believe the feats of Spirited Charge and Trample you get the code version of the real-life effects that a powerful horses body can have in knocking down an opponent and the extra damage you can deal having the height advantage.
I do not see any change needed other than the probelm Grahlock once mentioned with Trample and shields, but this is my personal opinion
-Stayne
On the other hand - I have also felt it to be more than reasonable. As you should well be aware, the majority of commonly used polearm weapons that were wielded in one hand (the balance often being taken by a locking mechanism) were a "one shot" only deal. Lances where used for a charge, spears sometimes the same but oft thrown, once that first initial charge was done, then a one hand weapon was drawn and the knight fought upon horseback (assuming of course they started with a shield in one hand with their lance).
To my mind once the code starts and you are battling "toe-to-toe" (which is how the mud works) then a knight stabbing people with a lance that they are wielding in one hand seems a little far fetched (especially since they are no longer charging). In this case the code forcing you to use the strength of two arms to wield such a weapon seems appropriate. I believe the feats of Spirited Charge and Trample you get the code version of the real-life effects that a powerful horses body can have in knocking down an opponent and the extra damage you can deal having the height advantage.
I do not see any change needed other than the probelm Grahlock once mentioned with Trample and shields, but this is my personal opinion
-Stayne