white titles for the lords

[Briek]

just a small suggestion, white titles are there current to discern who faith leaders are and its alright to contact them because they are considered famous enough to be so well known, is the same not also true for the new lords? as they will no doubt need to be contacted and can be regarded as famous within the game now.

[Larethiel]

White titles discern Faith Leaders who are priests. Faith leaders that are no priests do not have a white title

[Lathander]

No do leaders of most guilds.

[Lerytha]

I don't think we need it! If we want, I suppose we can put "Lord of Waterdeep" after our title. And make sure people know they can tell us without having greeted us.

It all depends though, whether we begin "hiding", or whether we go "open". But that's all for the Council to decide... oooh... wait and see!

But no, personally I don't want a big white title saying "Lord". A big white title marking all faith leaders? Maybe. But not for Lordly ranks. Otherwise, where would it end?

We'd have a white title for "knight", another for "archmage", etc. And then it would just dissolve into a second title system. We have titles for a reason, so... I'm sure we can use them. Also, if we update the helpfiles so the Lords are all there, any person will know who the Lords are by typing "Help Lords".

Good suggestion though!

[Harroghty]

HELP TITLE has this to say:

"Your title should state your name and your profession/occupation."
"Your title should be in character, and while the information can be used IC, you need to determine if your character would know such a thing about the character in question. The title is information that could be gained by heresay for instance."

I understand where you are coming from, Briek, but I think that if the players of the lords so decide, then they could change their titles and achieve what you suggest without "a white title" before their name. I would go further and say that after having a celebration in the city, they would likely be in a very public position that one might hear about. I was not at the celebration though, so I am not positive that they were named there.

[Lerytha]

We were named, at the ceremony. We carry big pointy things that tell people what we are. And it's hard to hide your identity, when you've stood for election and/or had your name announced publicly. So, until anything changes (a mass memory-removing spell), everyone knows who the Lords are. ICly.

[Briek]

i don't know if i really should post this in this thread but there isn't actually a "lords" suggestion area yet so what the heck, going off on something else i have thought of. Will the lords be be having some sort of public day in which people can come to the council and state any problems/things they need done that are important to the city?

[Skeas]

I don't consider it so much a "every new player will know who this person is thing" as a "this person has accomplished something and earned a badge of honor thing"

just my six cents

[Gwain]

Originally, every guild or leader position had a white title, be they the warden or rangers or the champion of the Illusionist guild. These were removed to show fairness and balance to the playerbase. Cleric Faith leaders were left with the titles so that players could track them down with more ease. I would not mind a return of white titles for all guild heroes though.

[Skeas]

The way I look at it, players without should do more to earn a white title, rather than those who deserve them have them removed. Fairness will sometimes become second priority, but is it really fair to the people who've RPed their butts off to lose what they earned, either?

[Lerytha]

Briek, if you've got a suggestion for the Lords, ask them if you can make a submission to the Council, or something. I'm sure any of us will be glad for good suggestions from people!

As for white titles for guild leaders... well, I don't think we really have them, anymore.

I'd think white titles could be made for any faith leader. So, maybe if a paladin is leading a faith, make them "High Knight". Maybe if a wizard is leading a faith, make them "High Mage", etc. So that the high rank is always about religion.

Again, personally, I don't want the Lords to have a white title! If we decide that's what we want, then great! But I think "title Lord of Waterdeep" works just as well!

Just my few thoughts.

[Raona]

Hmmm. It looks like the only thing the helpfiles have to say on this currently is

4. DO NOT use the tell command as a means of gaining OOC information.
This command can only be used to communicate ICly with players
which you have already met and greeted. Likewise do not use the
otell command to share IC information. Abuse of these channels
will see their removal from the offending player.

...which is lacking the nuance of fame that I think we generally apply. I'll start a new topic about that...but for the sake of this conversation, I think white titles miss the relative nature of fame, and would suggest the following in lieu of giving more famous people white titles:

If your character has ICly heard of and has learned the name of another PC, I think it is fine to TELL them. Thus, looking at the WHO list for their name is NOT an acceptable means of learning their name, but learning of it ICly from another PC would suffice. So, an IC conversation like "Who's the Lord Councilor with the glasses?" "Oh, that's Lerytha." would, I think suffice for someone to write a magical post letter to Lerytha. I think the bar should be a little higher for a TELL, but say this PC then sees her bust in the museum, I'd consider that enough for them to TELL Lerytha without her having greeted them. Does that seem about right?

[Briek]

As usual Raona you have, i think come up with a much better IC idea with regards to High Knights and High Mages i am certain that every faith who has paladin orders also has a high knight position who is a senior member of the faith correct?

[Lerytha]

What's my bust doing in a museum?! :O

[Layna]

It's an ancient relic?





(sorry, couldn't resist)

[Lerytha]

That made me giggle, slightly.

[Caelnai]

What's my bust doing in a museum?! :O

If your face was included perhaps we would know who you are.

I never understood the logic in removing the Hero's white titles. In my mind, the issue of favoritism was about who had the (multiple) positions, not the font used to label them.

[Lathlain]

On a technical level (as far as I can remember) the white titles were a mandatory part of the hero levels (levels above 50, which used to be granted by immortal staff to important PCs) - the favouritism element of that came from the fact that these certain characters could earn more levels than anybody else as a result, and thus be given an unfair coded advantage.

If my understanding is correct: when hero levels were removed (or revoked, at least), the ability to attach a customised white title to a given character was lost (high priests work differently to an extent, as it's attached to their class/faith level and not to an uncoded status) - so I imagine it would take some code alteration to be able to implement them again. Of course I might have completely the wrong end of the stick there, so my apologies in advance if that's complete nonsense!

[Harroghty]

"Your title should state your name and your profession/occupation."

Considering this: why is a white title necessary for these other various positions?

I'd think white titles could be made for any faith leader. So, maybe if a paladin is leading a faith, make them "High Knight". Maybe if a wizard is leading a faith, make them "High Mage", etc. So that the high rank is always about religion.

I understand there is some value in identifying faith managers that are not priests (so that they can be identified perhaps by hopefuls), but I contend that the only reason to assign the priest faith managers "white titles" is because they are also specialty priests (Vanguardiers, Battleguards, etc..) in addition to their title and could not fit both in the space afforded with the TITLE command.

In short: a faith manager knight or mage could just have...

<human> Hulk, High Knight of WWF
<elf> Algore, High Mage of the Internet

...but a specialty priest that is also a faith manager requires...

<Holy Strategist> Donald, High Priest of the Red Knight

[Lathander]

What's my bust doing in a museum?! :O

Even museums need doorstops.

Three bits of history:
1. Faith/Guild leader positions of years past were given a white title and ONE extra level. In other words they were L51. No player ever was allowed to progress past that, so it is incorrect to state the some players were allowed extra levels - plural.
2. The extra level was removed from those players while they still maintained the white title. Not long after, the white titles were removed from all such positions with the exception of faith managers who were clerics.
3. All of these steps were executed because of cries of favoritism. This perception (in my continued opinion, misperception) of favoritism was based on the complaint that the positions were held by those players the imms liked better than others.