Telling the Ungreeted / White Titles

[Raona]

I believe the only concrete statement in the helpfiles about who one can tell is currently the following:

4. DO NOT use the tell command as a means of gaining OOC information.
This command can only be used to communicate ICly with players
which you have already met and greeted. Likewise do not use the
otell command to share IC information. Abuse of these channels
will see their removal from the offending player.

It's hidden away in a topic that most people using the TELL command would not look at (until much later). So I'd like to add something to the helpfiles about (not) TELLing people that haven't greeted you. But what to say? I don't think the above captures the nuanced nature of our current policy, and so I'd like to put that nuance into words.

We used to have white titles in the WHO list for "famous" PCs, and it was understood that those people could be contacted by amulet without greeting. But I'd argue against returning white titles to that purpose: at present they are reserved for high clerics of the respective faiths, and I think they should stay that way - because fame is a relative thing!

A hopeful of Tyr would likely have a much better idea of the Church of Justice's leadership than would a hopeful of Tymora. An aspiring bard would be far more likely to have heard of Isaldur than would a young warrior. So fame is contextual, and who you consider famous, and who you are likely to have heard of through word of mouth, depends on your circumstance and who you interact with. (How many degrees of separation are there between the unknown individual and people that you do know?)

On the question I've posed, I would say this concretely:
You may not TELL someone based solely on seeing their name in the WHO list. You must have learned of them ICly.

Perhaps also this?
If you have learned the name of someone ICly, you can send them a letter by Magical Post. Using an amulet to contact them requires a bit more IC knowledge: you should either have seen them (or a good image of them, as in a magic mirror, statue, etc.) in person long enough to readily recognize them on sight, or know their name, something about them, and have a decent description of them. If you seek them for a while ICly, to no avail, you can resort to TELLing them even though you have not been GREETed.

I raise this as a request for collaboration on what to say on this topic in the helpfiles, so please present your opinion, and disagree with me freely! Consider what would be the right bar for:
A faith enemy who never crosses paths with the PC
New players who nonetheless grew up in a locale where the PC may be "famous"
People a PC keeps at arm's length, never greeting, despite their crossing paths with them

[Horace]

I've always told people that since the amulet seems to use true name as a diviner, that if you hear the name you're able to contact them. This would still apply with the white titles, because then it's assumed you've heard of them off screen since they are so famous.

I think it just complicates things by making it a greet issue - it's not like anyone can really use tells in an abusive way, it's almost always to stimulate interaction between pc's.

So I guess I'd be against the help file. If you know their true name it's fair game. But I'd be against using tell 'a masculine, mullet-haired male human' (even though that works) since that isn't a source of divination. True names are.

Just how I see it.

[Harroghty]

I think there is a degree of "willing suspension of disbelief" implied in this process. I see what you mean by identifying that the de facto policy (what we are practicing generally) differs from the de jure (what is written down in the help file).

I see it this way:
-There are good reasons to tell someone you have not greeted. (A newbie hopeful who does not know the faith manager is one example.)
-This is generally not (that I have heard) abused.
-It has been the advice of the Player Council on the ASK channel that new players in a dire scenario may use the TELL command with some famous characters.
-The amulet of communication works using names and so you may hear the name in a conversation with another PC and be able to use it to contact that person using the TELL command.

This has all been mentioned, but I will advance one more thing:
-Particularly with faith managers, it is possible that a PC could -in appropriate detail- create a plausible story to support their use of the TELL command with a famous faith manager by citing a conversation with an NPC or an overheard conversation at a place of worship.

"Lawkeeper, I was told your name by a priest at the Halls of Justice when I declared myself interested in the faith of Tyr."

I believe this to be an appropriate cover for the IC use of IC information for an OOC reason (you visit a different temple in a different city than they do, you live in Hungary and they are on US Mountain Time, etc.) We are imposing some unrealistic situations in the game (having one faith leader to induct anyone who wants to join their church, anywhere on Faerun) because it is a game, but I belive that we should also consider the nature of the environment and apply some lenience in things to help overcome those factors. Thoughts on this?

[Selveem]

I believe that stems from in the past when tells could not be turned off. The only protection players had from ill-intent would to not greet people.

I honestly don't see any problem with sending tells to even people you don't know (aside from the fact that I hate cell phones and find amulets obnoxiously close to them).

In the past, I remember even being told that amulets shouldn't be used very often (and you were actually scolded if you did), but today it seems far more prevalent to just send tells when bored. *shrug*

I would just consider that helpfile outdated.

[Lathlain]

I've been accosted by 'strangers' over tell in the past as Lath'lain, and never really considered it a problem to be honest. I would really much rather that they contact me initially by tell than awkwardly flit around me in person until they happen to catch me saying my name for example.

Ultimately - mass use of amulets of communication are a difficult thing to justify in a game like FK, but they're a necessary evil really. I'm entirely prepared to take their use with a pinch of salt, if only to better oil the gears of roleplay!

[Saranya]

I believe these discussions go hand-in-hand with the old controversy about the who list. Those never-ending discussions have led to somewhat contradictory posts and helps on the subject.

For my part, I favor anything which facilitates RP and I don't see a problem with name-driven ungreeted tells. Characters whose long-term RP leads them to develop a reputation (good or bad ) should be sought out by others!

So saying, I also make liberal use of the "detune" command when Saranya needs some quiet contemplation time with her Creator (or a dwarven ale.) As several players can recently attest, I react quite forcefully to any who attempt to circumvent my implied request for privacy through scry or other means.

[Mele]

I just want to point out also:

Sending an ungreeted tell does not mean you will only be met back with polite responce. An evil character may find it invasive and be rude, a good character may find it untrustworthy and brush it off, etc.

[Tavik]

I would agree that there are some situations in which an ungreeted tell is warranted. A few quick examples of these are seeing a FM on that you don't generally see on often or a new character dead and knows no one on at the moment to help them. Granted, these are IC reactions necessitated by OOC factors, but in my mind those certain OOC factors should allow for the rules to be bent a little.

What I don't like seeing is people using tells to determine who someone is. Sending ungreeted tells returns the adjective of the person being telled (told?). Furthermore, sending even greeted tells to someone who is disguised, polymorphed, hiding or invis will give away that person, and I HAVE seen people use this info IC (I'm not pointing fingers at anyone). To me, a mental or spoken message is not going to reveal the new appearance of someone or the fact that they are invis or hiding, and I don't think that info should be used at all.

That's my two cents.

[Skeas]

I may've broken this rule when I sent an ungreeted tell to Kienva on one of my alts, mistaking the halfdrow woman for one of my character's 12 thieving sisters. ;D

[Raona]

Thanks for the input, everyone! It raises for me a slightly new meta-question: should the in-game helps focus on NOT using TELL, greeted or not, to collect IC information...or should they (also) mention only using TELL when you ICly have some notion about the PC you are TELLing? (And if so, should an exception for newbies be added?)

[Harroghty]

This provokes the question of the exact nature of the amulet's mechanics. Are you seeing an image of the person you are speaking with? Are you simply making a purely oral connection like a two-way radio? I believe that clarification on this would answer a lot of your questions.

[Tavik]

In my mind it's simply audio information. My justification is that there is a couple spells that are used for visual information. If we get into seeing the target with the amulet, it undermines the entire point of disguising. Once people know you are a rogue and think you are disguised, they can just send a friendly tell to confirm their suspicions. I don't have any rogues, but I'm pretty sure those that do would agree they they DON'T want such a simple way to counter disguise as it would be effectively useless at that point. Just my thoughts though.

[Harroghty]

...without revealing their identity.

This part of the help file brings me to a similar conclusion.