bearded old man

[Leveran]

Okay.. just a gripe I guess. Don't know if this is the place for it or not, but here it goes:

For Express Deliveries, you're supposed to find the bearded old man. Geoffrey specifically says he wanders in Waterdeep. Now, I understand if maybe a mob wanders out of town or something, but this is a major newbie quest chain. I'm guessing the purpose of which is to get starting characters some xp, cash, and exposed to other areas of the game, thus running them into other quests.

Fine. Great. It's usually a fun and profitable way to learn the game. Untiiiiil the old man leaves the town. Now, I have tried every resource I can think of, IC and OOC, to find him. I asked for a tracker. I asked for a magic mirror, and was led to some -other- 'old bearded man' in the Daggerford sewers. I asked on ask and was told to look ICly.

So, what is left? Am I supposed to wander the world map and hope that I just happen to run into this guy in High Forest or something? Thankfully this isn't my first character, but for those who are could find serious aggravation with this.

[Isaldur]

Just a quick question, do you actually know if he left Waterdeep? I ask because you didn't say that you had found him finally and that there is proof he was outside of Waterdeep.

The few times I had to find him he was definately in Waterdeep, but wandering about at the same time I was and obviously more practiced at cat and mouse than me.

[Layna]

He definitely leaves Waterdeep, I've spotted him on the roads before. This is probably something that should be emailed to builders@ as it's possible he's lacking the ACT_STAY_AREA flag or something that should be pinning him in the city (or the 'nomob' flag is missing from Waterdeep's exits/entrances - either or).

Course, that's just a guess on my party

[Isaldur]

Well there's the proof, thanks Layna!

If he can leave Waterdeep then your best chance is probably waiting for a reset or crash if you're certain he isn't in the city.. or take appropriate IC actions like putting up missing person signs, putting his picture on the side of milk cows, etc.

[Leveran]

Yeah, well, I spoke to an IMM, or at least someone with the power to possess mobs, who told me that he was, indeed, out of town at that point. Reason I know said person could possess mobs is, well, the bearded old man was the one that answered an ask question concerning him. <.<

Issue is this: Express Deliveries is a pretty fundamental newbie quest. It's not only a good way for new players/characters to make money, but it introduces characters/new players to the areas a bit. Encourages roleplay via people needing to ask directions, and sends them other places where they might discover more quests. Having this guy leave town puts a deadlock on progress with them, and thus a hamper on all above facets. It wouldn't be quite so bad if he was locatable via IC means, but as I said, several of these were attempted. And let me tell ya, I've seen some bizarre mobs in bizarre places. Corwell guards in Waterdeep, Zhentil Keep guards in Silverymoon, things like that. What that tells me is that he could be in any of the 15,000 rooms that the game boasts. Waiting until the next crash/reboot just seems a lot of time that I could be doing other things. If I recall from Leveran, this particular delivery is quite lucrative. *Shrugs*

Anyway, that's my gripe. I guess I'm left with no recourse but to do as you suggest and wait for a crash. That's just sorta annoying, yannow?

[Mele]

Can I suggest instead of posting a "gripe" posting in game suggestions with a constructive suggestion on how to fix it, and why it needs fixing?

I know we all get angry about things, I'm very good at coming off snippy in text myself. At the end of the day it is just a game with people who have real lives and responsibilities, who may not take quite as kindly to a "gripe" as they would a nicely voiced concern/suggestion. :)

[Lathander]

You are welcome to pursue the course and advice you choose. Isaldur's suggestions are sound, as was Layne's suggestion:

This is probably something that should be emailed to builders@ as it's possible he's lacking the ACT_STAY_AREA flag or something that should be pinning him in the city

In the meantime, there are other quests and even less solitary pursuits to build the ongoing story of your character. Thank you for bringing it to our attention, though there is little that can/will be done if the concern is not brought to the attention of the people who fix such things, using the procedures they have put in place.

[Horace]

People have been complaining about this for a year and a half. I can't imagine there is any chance that this is the first time builders or imms have heard about it. I think Leveran seems perfectly reasonable enough to understand that the game isn't pay to play and there will always be more problems mechanically here than at places where players place monetary investment into the game.

Staff knows about it.

A) not warranting correction
B) warranting correction, though not emergency
C) emergency, staff currently on it

That's all that really needs to be answered with.

---------

Isaldur's suggestion is what I'd do, and what I've done before. It's a mechanical error issue, therefore out of character issue, I'd be very conscious of game resets and make your dash for bearded man as soon as you can after one.

[Aveline]

People have been complaining about this for a year and a half. I can't imagine there is any chance that this is the first time builders or imms have heard about it. I think Leveran seems perfectly reasonable enough to understand that the game isn't pay to play and there will always be more problems mechanically here than at places where players place monetary investment into the game.

Staff knows about it.

A) not warranting correction
B) warranting correction, though not emergency
C) emergency, staff currently on it

That's all that really needs to be answered with.

Honestly, just because people have been complaining about it for a year and a half doesn't mean anything. People can complain and complain about it and it will just keep getting looked over unless someone actually reports it to the right place. The places to report things are there for a reason and while it is fine to come here and discuss something like this, we can't expect the imms to go through every posting and pick out every complaint and deal with it. Even if a problem has been about for a while don't be afraid to post about it because you think someone else may have already. That might have been what everyone else has been thinking. Nothing will get dealt with if everyone is always too afraid to report it, or just doesn't feel like filling a posting out.

It reminds me of a storm in Houston where the entire town's electricity was off for a week. There was one block that kept noticing that everyone around them had power, so they kept thinking that any day they would get their power back. The streets in front of and behind them had power, and down the street further there was power. Finally, something like three weeks later someone finally called the electric company, complaining and irate because everyone else had power and their block still didn't. It was then that this person that called was told that no one had been out to fix their power because no one from that block had ever called it in. Everyone just assumed someone else had called already and so no one did. So if they would have just called to begin with, they probably could have had power as much as two weeks earlier. And when they did finally call it was to complain about the poor service of the electric company...when the electric company had been working nonstop all that time to make sure everyone who had been having problems was getting taken care of.

In short... the people who fix things have a lot on their plates. Everyone knows that, but knowing that...if you want something to get their attention, don't complain about it. Send it to them with suggestions and in a way where it gets put on their to-do list. If you don't send it in and only complain (I'm not saying complaining is what was going on above, just making a point), it is likely just to get overlooked and nothing will be done about it. And then more and more people will get frustrated by the same problem that you could have helped to fix.

[Gwain]

To me, its not even an issue. An issue is something that does not work 100% of the time. This is simply an minor problem until there is a crash or reset in usually 3-10 days then the mobile is back where it was for almost 4 rl days before it wanders out again, its not impossible to track them with some ic methods, but even if that cannot be accomplished the mobile will be back at the next reset of the system.

That certainly does not mean that an email should not be sent to builders, alerting them about this happening and suggesting ideas to either correct it or work with it based on the preferences of the sender. Its a big game world, it can get frustrating but your emails and ideas are not ignored, they just take a bit of time to get assessed and answered. I personally appreciate the detailed responses and are provided by the staff (I know I'm a member of the staff, but I feel I can say that the time given here in aid or explanation is excellent in my opinion) and never given in anger or the superficial indifference of a one-line post with no matter or weight into the problem. Explanations are good, honest, appreciated and warranted in my opinion.

So, I would recommend sending in an email as said above, explaining the situation and potential problems with potential solutions and adding to the voice of the issue if it has already been sent in by other players. And until it is settled and looked into just do the very best you can to make do and soldier on with the current situation.

Godspeed.

[Horace]

Honestly, just because people have been complaining about it for a year and a half doesn't mean anything. People can complain and complain about it and it will just keep getting looked over unless someone actually reports it to the right place.

That places everything on the players and removes everything from the staff, in regards to mechanical issues. That's not right. To say it's the first time anyone on the staff has heard about it is kahrazy.

I agree with Gwain. It's not an issue that needs to be fixed. I just wish staff would say that instead of beating around the bush and pushing people through more bureaucratic avenues leaving the player to never hear back on it and losing all faith in that system to the point where when something really is wrong it isn't pursued by the player.

It's an oversight in code. It's not important enough to fix. We'll do everything we can to help you on the OOC side to find the guy (IE search after reset).

[Lathander]

more bureaucratic avenues

Far more effective than complaining for over a year and a half (though I haven't seen a year and a half's worth of complaining on it). Not all imms watch all forums. Some only even watch one or two. If it is too much to ask players to take the time to post in the relevant place, it is too much to ask the appropriate imms to take the time to fix it.

People can post in General Discussion all they want about an application issue, but if it isn't submitted to "applications" it won't be considered. The same goes for hard code bugs. The same goes for building. And on and on. What some bemoan as bureucratic avenues, others call organization. We have ours.

[Gwain]

I agree and as always recommend sending directly to those organizations through the methods they request through helpfiles, the forums and the ask channel. Its the best and most direct method.

[Harroghty]

I just want to say that I have sent e-mails to the builder's address ( fkbuilders@lists.skynet.ie ) several times and have had a prompt reply each time. The issue is generally resolved in a timely manner.

I recommend that people avail themselves of this option and send an e-mail to that address with a proposed solution for an identified problem. If someone does not feel comfortable suggesting a solution, then please post your problems to the forums and someone from the code council will more than likely be able to take care of it.

Thanks for bringing this up, Leveran!

[Leveran]

Well, first and foremost, I want to say that this topic has somewhat blown up beyond what my original intention was. However, I would like to briefly clarify a couple things:

Whoever possessed the bearded man to respond to my initial ask question (Which was actually wondering if he had managed to get himself locked in some room somewhere) told me, when I asked if it was intentional for the man to leave the town, that yes, it was. That is why I did not send anything in to the builders, instead of posting a 'gripe' here as I did. Had I been told "It could be an oversight, send something to the builders..." that would have been my first recourse. Instead, I was made to believe that him leaving was intentional and 'business as usual' and that is why I chose the path I did.

In light of everything that has been posted, I am going to email the builders team a link to this forum, being as it has all of the pertinent information, and we'll see what happens. If he -is- meant to stay in town and it -is- a matter of a simple flag, who knows, this matter could be resolved quickly.

Again, I just wanted to say that the gripe was as much about being told he was meant to leave town than the fact that he does.

[Harroghty]

My friend, I do not think that anyone was criticizing your post, but rather some of the replies to it. I am sorry if you came away with the impression that people were upset with your post. Again, thanks for bringing this up and thanks for being willing to forward it on to the builders's address.

[Leveran]

My friend, I do not think that anyone was criticizing your post, but rather some of the replies to it. I am sorry if you came away with the impression that people were upset with your post. Again, thanks for bringing this up and thanks for being willing to forward it on to the builders's address.

Oh nono, I didn't mean to say anyone was criticizing the post, more they were criticizing each other about it, hehehe.