Wands/Staves

[Alvirin]

- Invisibility: Balance.
- Daze/Daze Monster/Sleep/Confusion/Crushing Dispair/Web/Shadow Binding/Black Tentacles/Halt Undead/Hold Person/Hold Monster: Crowd control spells removed due to balance concerns.

Actually I'm interested to hear what are your balance concerns and what balance means for you, should these spells be unbalanced shouldn't be removed from game, including from wizards, clerics and druids?

[Glim]

Id consider a spell unbalancing to be able to cast it 20+ times from a wand as opposed to being able to cast it under 10 times memorized.

[Lerytha]

It still think we're thinking too much about this. Here's an idea:

You must memorise a spell 20 times if you want to charge a wand/stave (a, this limits higher level spells being wanded). This means that it is up to a wizard what spells they put in there. Do they want several wands of 20 magic missile? Its quite easy to do. Fair enough.

Do they want several wands of 20 ice storms? Well, yes, but it'll work out very expensive. Lets face it. If its very expensive for a wizard to brew/scribe, its going to be equally as expensive (if not more so, with 20-mem requirements) to wand/stave it up.

And really, I think the prohibitive cost is actually more than enough of a limitation. And maybe a small lag to prevent ultimate spam-attack.

Other than that? I think we're scrambling at straws for some fake idea of balance. Just trust the wizards and let those who can afford it, do it.

[Nysan]

- Invisibility: Balance.
- Daze/Daze Monster/Sleep/Confusion/Crushing Dispair/Web/Shadow Binding/Black Tentacles/Halt Undead/Hold Person/Hold Monster: Crowd control spells removed due to balance concerns.

Actually I'm interested to hear what are your balance concerns and what balance means for you, should these spells be unbalanced shouldn't be removed from game, including from wizards, clerics and druids?

As I said in that post, it is my opinions. Never expected the list to be the 'official' list, simply a conversation piece and maybe a jump point for whatever builder may put time into the skills.

The reason why I eliminated crowd control spells from craftables is easy: spell duration. In my mind, the duration of the crowd control spells is just under the line of imbalance only balanced by the fact that the caster is limited by memorize slots. Granted, I do not have in-game experience with all the crowd control spells but I cannot see the duration of hold person/monster or web differing greatly than any similar effect spell. Placing such spells in wands, even limited charges wands, could lead to a player enjoying 50+ casts of such spells within their hands after a small effort in goods trading and push them over that balance line.

Again, my thoughts... *shrug*

[Zorinar]

Just wondering what the status of this is...
Are create wands and staves in the game or still be considered?

[Elke]

Just to add into this, a wand my character was given -did- actually blow up on her. It was a wand of Blindness, and it worked once, then blew up. Nothing drastic though, just the wand destroyed. I can't remember what level this was at but it was fairly low...

[Grenwyn]

I can just imagine the conversation...

Drenn wields a wand of disintegration.
Drenn says "Don't move or I'll disintegrate you! And when this thing disintegrates, it REALLY disintegrates!
A small goblin moves.
Drenn points the wand of disintegration at A small goblin. It blows up in his face!
Drenn says "...what do you know. It disintegrated."



Seriously though, I wouldn't mind seeing more wands/staves in the game--until they were pointed at me. Then I might want them revoked.

I do think they should be difficult and/or expensive to make, of course.

[Julthain]

I agree to lag concentration/spellcraft checks during creation. This is all viable. Though, I do not agree that there should be lag or checks during use. They are objects that have been enchanted, and most only need an uttered powerword or to be gestured in a certain way to release the magic. I do not see how your efficiency in spellcraft/concentration would affect this outcome. Perhaps add Use Magical Device to wizards, then the check could be your ability to use magical items.

As far as spells able to be be put into them, I agree that logged spells should be exempt, but the available spells should include all from 1-8 with a slight adjustment, wands being smaller and one-handed would only be able to hold levels 1-4 and staves, which are larger and two-handed would have the range of levels 1-8 (with a list of what can be put into a wand/staff and what cannot in the mechanics only, wizards should have to learn from their mistakes if they try to make an item with a "forbidden" spell). Excluding all crowd-control, all this type of spell, etc... really doesn't balance anything in my opinion and would make it less useful to even create them, the spells available should be assessed on a spell-by-spell basis. I also believe that the spells should be limited to ranged/area/personal. So no touch spells and no spells that affect anything other than the area/opponent/caster. (I.E. Identify, Magic Weapon, etc.) Also, as stated in cannon, a wizard cannot use a spell from a magical device that he/she could not cast themselves. So say teleport was allowed as a craftable spell (it is a rare spell, the component for it have to be crafted, so it would be time consuming and costly.) Any wizard barred from conjuration would ultimately not be able to use it. This would weed out specialists hoarding wands/staves with spells they are barred from.

As far as the level of the spells on the item, I would suggest an amount (calculated by spellcraft+spell level+spell proficiency level) + wizards level. (with outcome capped at a fixed amount, maybe no more than 10 levels above caster so, most powerful could be level 60 spells). The possibility of backfire should still be applicable in my opinion. That is the danger of using it to being with.

As I posted in another forum section, I think it should be tied into other trades. Maybe smithing to create fine metal settings to hold the gem/shard used for the tip, Mining to provide the gems, lapidary to provide the needed cut to the gem, alchemy for shards, logging for the wood, woodworking to create the base, skinning for hides, leatherworking to create the wrapping for the grip/handle and so on though allow a wide range of wand/staff tips. So given the wood used, metal setting used, gem/shard used, and hide used, you could have a good deal of unique creations and it would allow all tradesmen to "get in on the action" and provide a good amount of RP, of course there will be the odd twink in the bunch that goes out and hunts down all the trades, so they can continue with their "twinkiness". But may the the IMMs smite them and cast them into oblivion for all eternity.

Sidenote, the string generation for it might get a little long and tricky, but not all raw materials used in its creation have to be reflected in the completed product. Maybe one would look like: a snake hide wrapped wand with a silver and obsidian tip, or something of the sort, it could probably be cut down even more if character length is an issue. I'm just saying I think there should be many variations, so you don't see identical wands all over the place. They are supposed to be unique.

So with all of the above, everyone could profit in some way. It would be a good outcome for all the coding that would indeed be needed to implement the skills ingame.