Teacher/Scholar feat question

[Nysan]

I have hit a bit of confusion in a few conversations lately regarding Teacher/Scholar feats. I have poured over help files and forums posts but little helps settle the question. So, here I am to get a firm answer to end an on-going in-game debate.

What feats are required to teach trades (mining, smelting, ect)? I believe it is teacher 2, but it seems everyone that talks with me about trades lately has a different answer. Since trades have always been the 'odd man out' with most rules, I'm uncertain.

Similar thought inspired by recent conversation... Would it be a waste of time to apply for special consideration to gain teaching feats on max/near max level characters that cannot gain new stat points? (I have a good idea what the answer to this one is, but I promised to ask when I brought up the first question.)

[Nysan]

Really? 2 days and no one can settle the debate over which feats are needed to teach trade skills?

The debate.... CONTINUES!!!

[Raona]

I tested training the mining trade on the testport, with a human warrior:

Mining can be taught.

Scholar feat 1 was required for the human to do so at grandmaster, I believe because it is not a race or class trade. (The scholar feat allows you to teach things that show up as "Other trades known:")

If you ask a more specific question (specify race/guild/skill level) I can tell you what is required.

Basically, I believe:
Teacher lets you start teaching at a lower skill level, and teach the other to a higher level
Scholar lets you teach topics outside your class skills or that you only attain at higher levels

You don't need either feat to train low-level skills innate to your class (for example, ignite), but you need to be a grandmaster or very nearly so to teach it without the feats.

[Aveline]

Quoted Dalvyn from this thread:

Without any feat, you can teach any skill (including spells, weapon skills, languages, ...) that your guild gets at level 20 or before then.

Then you can buy the Teacher feat (twice) to improve how well you can teach. With Teacher, you can train your students to higher level, and you can teach skills before you are expert.

And/or you can buy the Scholar feat (twice) to become able to teach higher-level skills/spells/whatever. With one Scholar feat, you can teach skills that your guild get at level 30 or earlier, as well as tardes. With 2 ranks in the Scholar feat, you can teach anything you know.

[Nysan]

I know the linked thread, but it is a bit dated and recent conversations (quite a few really) put a shadow of doubt in my head regarding trades. I'd kick myself if I could be teaching but didn't cause of some code change while I was gone. Better to ask and know for sure than spend points (or make applications) and regret later.

Specifics for Raona's post:
Race: Dwarf (just dwarf, pre-subraces)
Class/guild: Warrior/Fighter
Skills: Trades at or above Adept. (example - mining, smelting, ect)
They woud require Teacher 2 and Scholar 1 to teach, if I am reading the above correctly?

Will be nice to be able to link this thread next time in-game, end this silly "are you sure?" bit for good.

Edit: Oh, I have been reminded to ask about the second part of my first thread. The part regarding is it worth the time to apply for stat/feat adjustments or some kind of special RP application for older characters to attain trade skill teaching status? I promised I'd ask.

[Raona]

With respect to the first question, a level 25 plain dwarf warrior, adept at mining, can teach mining and smelting to others with teacher 1 and scholar 1 and sufficient INT, WIS, and CHA. (The latter is important...you need to be at least in the smart and clever range, and the high end of average charisma, to make use of the required feats, as described in their respective helpfiles.) The teacher feat allows you to teach the trades even though you are only adept. The scholar feat allows you to teach them even though they are not class trades.

I can't address the second question authoritatively, but suspect that you would be told to wait for a reset opportunity, which is still in the pipe. (That is, if you have an old character, and want new goodies...you'll have to give up some of the old goodies.)

[Nysan]

Answers my question nicely, thank you Raona. Now if I only knew which end of 'average' CHA my lil fella is at. I suppose the only way to really know that is try training teacher 1, since that doesn't require an application. Eh, I'm rambling again...

Figured the second question wouldn't get answered easy. At least I can say I asked, that should get that off my back. Appreciate it.

[Nysan]

Oh, one more silly question... well for this topic anyways.

Helpfiles for teacher and scholar list the applications email. We are still using that and not the applications forum for teacher/scholar apps, correct?

I'll be good and trust the helpfiles again after this question, I swear!

[Raona]

Helpfiles for teacher and scholar list the applications email. We are still using that and not the applications forum for teacher/scholar apps, correct?

I'll be good and trust the helpfiles again after this question, I swear!

Whoa, no, we have gone over to the applications forum 100%, I believe! I don't think that email address is monitored any more. I've fixed the helpfile...I recall now that I got stuck on a question half way through updating the applications helpfiles, and need to finish doing so. Thank you for saying something!

[Nysan]

Helpfiles for teacher and scholar list the applications email. We are still using that and not the applications forum for teacher/scholar apps, correct?

I'll be good and trust the helpfiles again after this question, I swear!

Whoa, no, we have gone over to the applications forum 100%, I believe! I don't think that email address is monitored any more. I've fixed the helpfile...I recall now that I got stuck on a question half way through updating the applications helpfiles, and need to finish doing so. Thank you for saying something!

Always happy to see my paranoid side benefit others.

Edit: Then that brings up another question. I'm fairly clear (I think) on how to format requests on the applications forums for stuff on my account, but is there a certain way the 3(5) people recommending a player for scholar/teacher feats should format their posts?
I can't really picture them putting my account name in the title, for example.

[Raona]

Sorry, that one is above my pay grade. But I think simply "Teacher Recommendation for So-n-So" should do it!

[Nysan]

Makes sense, thanks again Raona. I suppose listing the players asked for recommendations in the original application couldn't hurt either.

Its odd, of all my characters its always this one that gets me into untested territory over the years: ironing out hometown bugs, mountable characters, size changes, pet/mount equipment fubars, trade skill Q&As, and now teacher fumbles... definately my "what does this button do?" character.

Anyways, I think I am out of teacher/scholar questions (finally). I'll end today's rambling with a suggestion to add to the application forum stickies regarding "recommendation" post formats, for future teacher/scholars, and a...