menzo, Ched Nasad and Skullport

[Atraos]

Hey

I'm really loving playing a Drow character at the moment, only thing is am i going to run out of things to do? I appreciate that there as some Drow characters that have been playing for years.
Are there any plans to add to these areas? What are the chances of being allowed into Undermountain proper ie near Waterdeep?
Are there ever any surface RP's?

Dont get me wrong, these are not complaints, just questions. I still no doubt have much to explore down here, was just wandering what the future holds:)

P.S

Anychance of some Money related quests down here? Like to the 20 plat a pop ones you can get on the surface?

P.P.S

Anychance of lowering the teleportation costs also??
If not Can some form of money making be added to Ched Nasad? Or maybe a bank to change the silver etc that can be gathered below.

Thanks:)

[Duranamir]

I can speak for the what is, as far as what maybe in the future that is completley upto the imms/player base as a whole.

Best way of getting advice is to talk to characters IC, i do try and be around as one Drow or other most days of the week, especially if i spot another Drow on. In my experience even a Drow priestess may choose to share what they know if they are in a good mood.

Still some basics without being too IC i hope. Drow do have access to the undermountain, but i would give a proviso on that, access is one way and you had better go with a group.

Surface access is always a contentious issue, the current answer is that it is not generally possible.

As far as money, that is a bit of a pain at the moment. The shops in Menzo/Ched Nasad/Skullport fill up with sold stuff really quickly and never seem to empty. This limits the earning potential drastically. Which is a bit of a pity given the price of all the nice shiny things that can be bought in the underdark. However... there are banks in all three cities if you look for them.

New areas do get added to the underdark at times, but that is down to players willing to build for what is frankly a very limited group of other players.
I will be clear though, Drow do currenlty have a somewhat limited horizon, the areas they have access to are fine. The issue in my view is simply that there are not enough Drow at any one time and that there are artifical limitations placed on them.

Duranamir, Drow and proud of it.

[Nysan]

Wish there was an easier method for surface dwellers to interact with drow. Reaching Skullport isn't exactly an afternoon picnic, which I understand, but it hinders interaction. I would love to have Gilain, and other merchants, visit regularly to flush out some of the clogged goods in the Underdark and see some of the hard to find items go down or come up, as needed. Gilain would pay 50 platinum at a portal, in a heartbeat, if it lead to RP with drow and access easier access to Underdark goods. Ahh, the dreams of a merchant...

[Atraos]

Possibly a Stupid question.......

What is the issue with Drow going to the surface or vice versa? If the city guards took a serious beef up and were keyed to not allow certain races in....Ie a lawful good night going on a rampage through menzo...Then what is the actual issue?

As long as it is all done in RP what is the issue?

Is it a matter of if Drow went up then it would all IC meets would probably be PK?
Would a Drow go looking for people on the surface or try to keep a low profile?.....Surely Stealth is better for surface activities?

[Nysan]

The drow/surface rule is one of our oldest rules. It was put in place way back when because none of us wanted to see drow characters trying to act like a certain good-hearted drow ranger. It is a well respected rule.

Personally, I think the rule could be re-examined now. We have had half-drow characters for quite a while now and I have yet to see any cliches wandering about. Plus, kismet cost of drow means folks should know what they are doing, before they make a drow. Anyone trying to abuse the RP guidelines about 'good' drow could have their character deleted, similiar to the 'neutral wizards and silverymoon' situation we dealt with before. Rule breakers know they run the risk of punishment.

Of course, I am bias on this topic because I really want to see merchant trade open up between the surface and the Underdark.

[Atraos]

Yes, I know the fellow to which you refer!! Very good book series by R A Salvatore!!

Anyway,

Perhaps this is something that could be looked into and maybe a trial ran? As you have said....As long as the RP is observed then where is the issue?

I am willing to be persuaded otherwise by experienced Drow...Duranamir for example. Perhaps there is good reason why it is not allowed?

Just think it would be more attractive to other wannabe drow players if they werent confined down here.....After all it isnt like we would get into any of the cities....

[Nysan]

If, and its a big if, drow were allowed on the surface, I would think their city interaction would be similiar to our current orc/goblin city interaction. The goodly places like Waterdeep and Silverymoon would attack on sight, but places like the Keep or Westgate would be somewhat understanding, though not exactly welcoming. I cannot imagine why most cities would treat a drow differently than they treat an orc.

I only see 2 hang ups regarding drow on the surface. The first is the previously mentioned celeb-impersonations. Second is... if drow get on the surface, would surface dwellers gain access to Menzo and Ched? Personally, I would keep the restrictions in place for those cities. Much like Mithril Halls, some things are just for those races to enjoy.

[Dapher]

Just a little input from myself. One, Ched Nasad is acceable by surface dwellers. There are even quests that take non-drow there. As far as I know, Menzo is still strictly drow. As for drow reaching the surface. Reading the FR books, namely the ones by R.A. Salvatore it talks about surface raids by drow in the first trilogy, and how rare they were. I think it had been two decaes in the book between raids or something along those lines. The surface raids were not about gathering items, nor setting up merchant trades. These were quests to kill te fairies, they were heartless warriors murdering elves. Now, we all know that this is not realistic in FK, for one PKs are not something we encourage. I enjoy a good evil/good RP, I LOVE the interaction. But, most of them are not PKs. So, by going off the books, the drow raids are not really beneficial in that sense. BUT, if you chose to sumit an app to start a merchant trade, that is something the admin team could look into. But Nysan is right, the drow celeberty is a rare case, one of a kind. I have seen three or four halfdrow attempt to follow the same path and to my knowlege, only one of them still logs regularly. These are things that are not supposed to be common. Just my two cents. I would like to see the trade route, but I would not like to see the major PKs occur that might result from bringing drow to the surface. And the same goes for letting surface dwellers into Menzo.There is no doubt in my mind that a Battleguard I know would LOVE to slaughter a house of drow *innocent look* lol But it is impractical.

[Nysan]

I always forget surface folks can reach Ched. I focus too much on Menzo and mix the two up, I think. Still think Menzo should stay restricted. Its not built for non-drow (code-wise ) and honestly, I don't believe it is as open minded to non-drow as Ched.

Far as the PK issues are concerned, I think we can be flexable. Our orc population isn't always about PKs, dispite their hostile nature in source books, and I think we have done well with them. Encounters in Skullport between drow and surface folks don't always end up in PKs. They are dark-hearted murderers, but they are not mindless killing machines. PKs is always an option, when dealing with evil characters, but it never a certainty even with the extremists.

[Duranamir]

First think, thankyou for raising this. Though lets be honest I am rather biased about Drow.

To address the main issue that has always been raised whenever this subject is raised. The percieved issue is that all the Drow are going to do on the surface is to wander round looking for a fight with other players. I personally do not beleive this to be true, yes the drow want to kill elves, just like the orcs but players of orcs have quite happily been killing MOB elves rather than going to Ardeep/waterdeep and making trouble, and i see no reason why Drow should not be the same.

Soloutions/mitigations.

• Do NOT allow drow to get daylight adapatation this will limit them to travelling at night/frequenting dark caves etc.
  
  Make the exit from the underdark a long way away from Waterdeep
  
  Do not allow low level Drow to get out, there are plenty of areas in the underdark just for levelling, only an experienced Drow would be allowed by the priestesses the chance of surface travel.
  
  I would also make very sure that the Drow are fully aware of the IC repercussions for IC actions rule, and if the goodies get a posse together and hunt a raiding Drow down that is all right and proper.
  
  Also in balance the risks to Drow of surface travel are huge, if they die on the surface they are going to have hells own job of ever regaining the content of there corpses.
  
  It should also be made quite clear that surface access is a privilege rather than a right and that it could be easily withdrawn.
  
  The priestesses are not going to be happy about Drow just wandering out to the surface to sight see. They want to be in control. Priestess sponsored missions for specific purposes are one thing, random males just exploring because they feel like it is a no. The males might get independent possibly heretical ideas. Priestesses are going to be very interested in who gets to use the portal.

I am going to leave the post here, I do have ideas about how to practically do this, but I will leave that for later discussion if it is decided to pursue this.

I am a builder, though a slow one and would quite happily do work towards this.

As far as trade, well that is a thing I well up for. And have in fact submitted an idea for a an area to help with surface/underdark trade.

Duranamir

[Dapher]

I am not trying to say NO drow on the surface, I was just putting out the information that I have gathered from the books, and how I feel it would be carried out on FK. Especially with the bugged rangers, most of us are sitting duks at the moment. But, back to this post. I think one way to ensure no lone drow, or weak drow make it to the surface, it buff up the areas, make them puzzels, and make the MOBs in the areas quite frankly really strong. I know a lot of the MOBs between UM, and Ched are really strong, and only three priests that I can think of and one wizard that comes to mind could make it through. But, something of that nature could really help control trafic. Demanding large groups. But I still think travel to the surface should require an app. I am not opposed to the idea, just hesitant to see it happen.

[Nysan]

As far as trade, well that is a thing I well up for. And have in fact submitted an idea for a an area to help with surface/underdark trade.

Anything Gilain can do to help out, I'd be glad to lead a hand towards trade. Merchant's guild and Waukeen's faith has many reasons to open up easier trade routes to the Underdark.

[Atraos]

Ok..

So lots of fors and againsts.... from people who know the game a lot better than I.

So if this discussion has raised its head before what was the outcome?

What are the chances of this being seriously looked into?

[Atraos]

On a different line...

How do i become a follower of lloth? I do know of a few priestess but havent seen any for a long time......

[Raona]

In all frankness, Atraos, while increased means of interaction between Drow and surfacers may come to pass, I do not expect to see Drow have free access to the surface any time soon. I'm not the authoritative voice on this matter, but feel in a position to give you this much of a prediction. Less potentially problematic RP scenarios already put a strain on finite resources, and past experience suggests that at least some players will constantly push at the boundaries until someone steps in to stop them. (Drow in wilds only, at night...roads are ok...early dawn and late dusk are OK...small outpost towns...cloudy days are ok...evil cities...there's an inevitable creep, it seems, once you remove a bright white line.)

[Dapher]

I am going to have to take Raona's stance on this one. I do not see unrestricted walking of the drow on the surface something that will happen soon. I trust that players have the best intentions, but I also know that temptations, and mistakes happen. In the past i know there have been drow RPs, and one of the biggest hold ups on it was the lack of drow that could show up. Maybe as I suggested earlier apping for an RP, or actually setting up an event, such as travels to Skullport, and through UM getting groups together and doing stuff may get more drow interested. Perhaps you or Duranimir could take the lead on it. Claim to be looking for treasures, and items of power in UM, or make up a story about hearing rumors of a crazy wizard running around. Anything that could spark interest of other drow players.

[Atraos]

All sounds fair enough

As stated earlier i bow down to your greater knowledge of the game...I was mereley putting the question out there, which it seems isnt for the first time.

So Duranamir....Over to you...Can you organise anything for a time where people are available? Alternatively could someone set me up on some sort of faith quest..Just to keep things interesting of course:)

[Duranamir]

I am going to answer Raona directly and in the end i guess agree to disagree withe the honourable paladin

There are three issues with Dow RP really, they are certainly not unique to Drow as Orcs and evils in general suffer from most of them too.

• Firstly, and this is really the biggest issue, there are simply not enough people playing Drow, not an easy one to fix, but with the current drive for top 10 on TMC and more members, it may be improve. Also whenever we do make an effort i.e. The Drow fridays for example it does improve for a period, it just hard to keep up for the usual RL issues and such.
  
  Second, Low to mid level Drow have plently of places to go and play in the underdark, the area support for levelling and general adventuring is actually very good. However high level gets to be boring as there is then a limitation on where you can go and what you can productivley do as well as who you can RP with. That is where the potential of visiting the surface becomes a major carrott, as a visit to the surface would be a spur to RP, and would be a major talking point if it did in fact happen.
  
  Thirdly, Drow are limited to a single faith with no played FM, this has been overcome by IMM involvement as is true i guess with other minor faiths, so is not really a biggie.

I am not an advocate of unrestricted surface access, i personally think that would be a bad thing. It would dilute what is special about the Drow. I do however want and have always pushed for a means for high level Drow to VISIT, the surface for specific purposes under a very restricted set of circumstances.

I also think that Drow visiting the surface would be an interesting spur to surface RP too, give those elf rangers something to talk about for a start.

Anyways, i think my opinion is pretty well known and i will as usual be doing what i personally can to help Drow RP whether through running RP's myself or building areas.

Duranamir

[Atraos]

Hey again

Do some of the points raised there not compliment each other...

For example..Not enough Drow playing...Is that because it is a restricted race? If the scope was there for more surface RP, in restricted situations, would more people want to play a Drow?
I imagine there are a few Drow characters out there collecting dust because they have done as much as they can down below? Maybe a forray to the surface would give people the chance to dust off those characters. This could then lead to more below RP as characters get to know one another etc.

I do fully agree that Drow cannot be given free reign over the surface but i do think the option should be there for certain situations and under controlled rules. I also appreciate that the Imms are busy on other projects and time must be spent on the more populated areas.

Anyways.....Thanks for the input

Salvilas

[Raona]

I don't think Duranamir and I are in disagreement - I'm certainly not saying the Drow should never come to the surface, but rather that I think it will only be workable in the near-term with high-level involvement and supervision...and a structure to the visit: a well-defined objective. Proposing such would be one step along the path to making it happen: why would a Drow want to go to the surface (other than to indiscriminately slaughter elves, which while very Drow I don't think is workable on FK)? Can a slight extension from one of the many places NPC Drow are already coded as being present on the surface get them to that objective?