Trademarks?

[Nysan]

Simple question, is it still possible to apply for tradeskill trademarks?

The few GM weaponsmiths/armorsmiths I know that have trademarks have had theirs for some time. I was a little hazy on if we can still get them. The helpfile still lists the application email addy... shows how often we GM stuff. Thoughts?

[Aldren]

Unofficially, yes, but they only currently work code-wise on metalworking trades (armoursmithing, weaponsmithing, etc) and not items like fletching or leathermaking.

(Unless of course something has changed in the time I've had my trademark, of course).

[Nysan]

Like you said, its been a while since I've seen any new trademarks out there and the helpfile is still in old app formation. I didn't want to waste an app forum thread on an outdated or unused subject. Would be nice to finally get a trademark for one of my characters, bring the idea full circle to its creator.

[Gwain]

The only two that were ever coded that I'm aware of were for weapons and armour. Though it may be the same trademark.

[Nysan]

The only two that were ever coded that I'm aware of were for weapons and armour. Though it may be the same trademark.

My interest revolve around a character's armorsmithing trademark. No worries there.

[Gwain]

I'd reccomend applying through the forums. A trademark adds a symbol and the line marked with to your works.

[Raona]

The helpfile still lists the application email addy... shows how often we GM stuff.

Helpfile now updated, thanks for pointing it out!

(All references to that email should be expunged...that process got stuck on the question of weddings and divorces, and left some instances undone!)

[Nysan]

The helpfile still lists the application email addy... shows how often we GM stuff.

Helpfile now updated, thanks for pointing it out!

(All references to that email should be expunged...that process got stuck on the question of weddings and divorces, and left some instances undone!)

Happy to help.

[Nysan]

I'll tack onto this thread rather than start a new one...

I am fuzzy on how tradmarks are coded, so I need insight.

1. Are trademarks universal? I mean would a trademark work for weaponsmith and armorsmithing, or would the character need two seperate trademarks?

2. If the character needs seperate trademarks for each trade, can they be the same mark, i.e. both be "crossed hammers", or would each trademark need to be different?

3. If seperate trademarks are needed, would the character need to pay the glory requirement for both or would they be given a pass on the second cost?

Random thoughts while mining...

[Raona]

Looks like the same trademark works for everything you construct, including armour, weapons, boxes, what have you. If you have it in your inventory when you use CONSTRUCT, what you construct will be marked with your trademark!

[Nysan]

Looks like the same trademark works for everything you construct, including armour, weapons, boxes, what have you. If you have it in your inventory when you use CONSTRUCT, what you construct will be marked with your trademark!

Not online to double-check, but when Gilain got his armorsmithing trademark I tried to make a dagger, after playing around with shields, and the dagger did not get marked. Would that be because his weaponsmithing skill was not GMed maybe?

I'll try again when I get online again, but I'm fairly certain it didn't work.

You mentioned boxes. So, trademarks are updated to work with all trades that use construct? Or is it just woodworking to get updated, due to shield changes? Very curious.

EDIT: Yep, my weapons and boxes are not being marked.

[Raona]

I initially ran this test with a boilerplate trademark and GM in everything, but just tried it again with a low skill level in woodworking, and indeed, the box did not get trademarked. So I guess a sufficient skill with the trade in question is a pre-requisite! More specifically, after playing with it some, I find that you must be a full-on grandmaster before it will work. So too with weaponsmithing, and with any other trade. I'm adding this to the trademark helpfile...but boy, it puts the bar up high!

[Algon]

I think this is a little to high actually. There were smith in old times that had trademarks that were not necessarily what could be considered Grandmasters!
I would think an expert in the field would be able to have a trademark. You do not have to be the best in the world to be able to put a trademark on your own work. But I do believe you would need to be well versed in the ways of that trade.

[Nysan]

Personally, I do not have a problem with GM being a requirement for usage. It means anything marked with a PC trademark is likely some of the best stuff PCs can make. There is a difference between a GM crafted breastplate and an expert made breastplate, both in APPRAISE information and often shown in lowered protection in DEFENCE. Trademarks set them apart easier.

More to the subject... I had a feeling it was something in their coding. I knew I made weapons and boxes after Gilain got his armorsmithing mark. Just didn't realize the trademarks were coded so well that they actually check skill levels before applying. Very good to know, but this raises a CONSTRUCT question.

Does this mean trademarks apply to everything under construct now? I have an odd image of the longest item name ever created after a GM in lapidary crafts a ring: "a blahblah ring set with a huge uncut shiny marked with a 4-word-brand" sounds a bit long. Trademarks used to be restricted to armor and weapons, but Roana's boxes test makes me wonder...

[Harroghty]

I also believe that GM is the appropriate skill level for a PC trademark.

Sure, Algon, trademarks in history did not always connote a particularly notable smith or even specifically one person (often they referred to a particular city or region such as the famous and much imitated "Passau wolf") but, Forgotten Kingdoms is text-based and rewards role-play. The additional colorful text goes a long way to make someone stand out in this game of black and white letters and therefore we are rewarding the long role-play and effort of our most dedicated smiths. No, GM does not guarantee role-play, but it affirms dedication to the role. Someone like Gilain, for example, is known for armor, not for wooden boxes. He's made his name on making armor and therefore he is notable enough to be distinguished and set apart.

[Algon]

I am going to play the devils advocate here for a moment.

Lets say we have a player in game who is known for being a master woodworker. He is known around the realms for the beautifully carved wood workings he does. We will call him Woody!

Now I understand this is a game and it is roleplay rewarded, but when you say its also a reward for dedication to the craft, that is a contradiction. One cannot become a GM in a constructing trade without countless hours alone doing very tedious and boring repetative commands.
So how can we reward for good RP when to be honest there is not much RP put into actually advancing the skill? Do not get me wrong, the few who have put this time in RP it beautifully, but its after that fact.
So this makes me think that someone could do absolutely nothing but GM a trade and then be rewarded for that dedication when there was absolutely no RP involved.

This is why I think Expert would be an acceptable level for a trademark. I mean you are an expert in the craft. This is not something that is easily done either, its not like they would be given out left and right. I can even see having the IMMs vote on each case to see if the person has RPed his trade enough to be considered for it. I just feel like GM is a little high to set the bar. If we want to reward RP lets reward the RP and not the mindless command typing.

[Nysan]

I do not consider GMing anything as RP. I don't think anyone is trying to say that. Also, I don't think trademarks are automatically given to anyone that GMs something. They are applications and just like any other application I am sure the staff would deny an app from someone that has obviously done nothing but grind away at the forge (or where ever they grind).

Besides Gilain, I can only think of 2 other trademarks. Both were/are characters very active in their faiths and the community in general. If you consider the characters that have trademarks, its is easy to consider them rewards for their RP and less about actually GMing this or that trade. Thats how I see trademarks at least. *shrugs*

Thats why I don't agree with lowering "the bar" on trademarks. Its not really all about the trades, to me. Its about acknowledging the efforts of an established character with a history of quality RP. My opinion only, not the official stance of FK or any of its staff.

[Raona]

Does this mean trademarks apply to everything under construct now? I have an odd image of the longest item name ever created after a GM in lapidary crafts a ring: "a blahblah ring set with a huge uncut shiny marked with a 4-word-brand" sounds a bit long. Trademarks used to be restricted to armor and weapons, but Roana's boxes test makes me wonder...

Nope...doesn't look like it operates on lapidary. Others people want checked?

Note to self: adjust helpfile to reflect not all trades get trademark

[Aldren]

Leatherworking, for one, does not work with a trademark, even at GM.

[Nysan]

Weaponsmithing and armorsmithing were the original trades that were coded for trademarks and woodworking was added recently, due to the recent shield changes. Thanks to recent posts, we know LW and lapidary do not work. So yeah, I think its just woodworking, armorsmithing, and weaponsmithing that are coded for trademarks.